I Have Had It with Mumbling Actors

Discussion in 'Visual Arts' started by ServingTheMusic, Jul 21, 2015.

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  1. jriems

    jriems Audio Ojiisan

    I think it's a combo of "mumbling" actors and the horrible decision to bury dialogue so low in the mix these days. It's a one-two punch that makes watching a LOT of things pretty intolerable.

    Oh, and for those who still think this issue is all "listener error," my hearing is just fine, thank you very much. My home theater system is likewise perfectly up to the task, so it isn't just my age or imagination.

    It's nice to see I'm not alone in experiencing these issues - although I'd much rather no one have to experience them, including myself.
     
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  2. Atmospheric

    Atmospheric Forum Resident

    Location:
    Eugene
    The contemporary music corollary is the self-conscious indy hipster delivery in which the singer is so emotionally moved by the lyrics they seem caught in his throat.
     
  3. ServingTheMusic

    ServingTheMusic Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    SoCal
    Your post is absolutely on the money. Perfectly stated. I've told my wife that dialogue being buried is the second half of the equation..if the mumbling was not bad enough.
     
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  4. ServingTheMusic

    ServingTheMusic Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    SoCal
    Yeh, well they eventually learn to enunciate when they apply for that Starbucks Barista job.
     
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  5. Remurmur

    Remurmur Music is THE BEST! -FZ

    Location:
    Ohio
    The guy in the car with Mumbles looks like a cartoon version of Tony Soprano !

    LOL :)
     
  6. Christian Bale, Matthew McConaughey and Person of Interest... There's a link connecting all of these, and as a result I don't believe in coincidences anymore! ;)
     
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  7. Vidiot

    Vidiot Now in 4K HDR!

    Location:
    Hollywood, USA
    Don't do that. There's still music and sound effects in there that will blow you out of the room. There's no real way to overcome a really bad mix. 2-3dB should be plenty.
     
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  8. ServingTheMusic

    ServingTheMusic Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    SoCal
    Thanks for the tip. It was out of frustration of having to roll back scenes over and over to understand the dialogue.
     
  9. Vidiot

    Vidiot Now in 4K HDR!

    Location:
    Hollywood, USA
    Not a lot you can do when it's all in the mix. Chris Nolan is a big director who specifically requests that his mixers bury the dialogue more than it needs to be. Michael Mann is another one. Films from both filmmakers have been criticized before by many for having hard-to-understand dialogue in some scenes.
     
  10. ServingTheMusic

    ServingTheMusic Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    SoCal
    I really don't know what they are trying to accomplish. Why not make silent movies?

    As I said, they probably buy into the notion that barely audible, mumbled dialogue is more real and macho.

    But I don't know anybody who talks that way personally.
     
  11. Rachael Bee

    Rachael Bee Miembra muy loca

    I thought Dustin Hoffman was brilliant as Mumbles in Dick Tracy.
     
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  12. audiomixer

    audiomixer As Bald As The Beatles

    Now that's interesting. He is the only one I can understand, compared to similar shows where people mumble. I guess that's because his dialog is inane.
     
  13. daglesj

    daglesj Forum Resident

    Location:
    Norfolk, UK

    Hmmm haven't had an issue with Caviezel on POI. Comes through perfectly clear. Maybe because I don't have a bizarre surround sound system? I find find most surround systems utter crap. My tv is of the earlier LCD generations that had enough depth to take proper cone speakers.

    Now bad uneven sound mixes in general....that's a growing trend.
     
  14. Myke

    Myke Trying Not To Spook The Horse

    Subtitles. I've used more subtitles lately, than ever before it seems. Funny thing there though...most leave out 40% of what's actually being said ! Really.
    An episode of The Sopranos : The brand, and model, and wattage became " speakers." So we're kind of screwed one way, or another.
    .
     
  15. Vidiot

    Vidiot Now in 4K HDR!

    Location:
    Hollywood, USA
    Most of his dialogue is re-recorded in post, particularly location dialogue that gets completely drowned out by background traffic.

    They actually did an episode about a year ago where a new vigilante comes into contact with the Person of Interest team, and actually turns to Caviezel and says, "how do you make your voice do that?" And Cavizel narrows his eyes and says (in a low growl), "do what?" So the people who make the show are very much aware that Caviezel speaks in a lower, whispery voice than anybody else in the series. He's got it in his head that this is acting. Far too many modern actors never learned the art of the stage whisper.

    Lots and lots of ADR.
     
  16. Vidiot

    Vidiot Now in 4K HDR!

    Location:
    Hollywood, USA
    I have been baffled on sets where I've asked the actors for a level so I can make adjustments (when I wear my sound hat), and then later on when they do the actual scene, their voice drops by more than half when they actually "act." To me, there should be no difference in level between your normal voice as a human, vs. your voice as a "character."
     
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  17. progrocker71

    progrocker71 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    The only show I've had any troubles with dialogue is Elementary and I think that could be blamed as much on the mix as the delivery of the dialogue. I keep hearing people mention that they have to turn subtitles on but as of yet I have not needed to do that with any TV show or movie in recent memory.
     
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  18. jriems

    jriems Audio Ojiisan

    Elementary is at the top of my Worst Offenders list.
     
  19. progrocker71

    progrocker71 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Yet I'm still able to understand the dialogue, I just have to ride the volume control while watching.
     
  20. ServingTheMusic

    ServingTheMusic Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    SoCal
    Totally and utterly agree and you just made the point I was trying to make all along..but far more succinctly.
     
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  21. HGN2001

    HGN2001 Mystery picture member

    The situation seems to me to have gotten to it's lowest point and may be improving, but that's just my own theory. For the last decade or so, it seemed nearly hopeless to try and watch any modern movie or TV show. Now, I think there are some shows and movies that have gotten better, and some that are still mumblefests.

    We live in an over-55 community and have a movie night about once a week. We have a Blu-ray player and a projection system that looks decent, but the sound has always been awful - a bunch of 12" speakers in the ceiling of our ballroom where the sound bounces around to the point that no-one was understanding the movies. Add to that the fact that most of the movies shown were of the modern variety with these horrid sound mixes and we just rarely attended these showings.

    Last week we decided to break our habit and actually go see one, more as a social event than to actually see the movie. The movie was TAKEN 3 - and we'd not seen TAKEN or TAKEN 2, so again, just went to be sociable.

    It had been long enough between our movie-goings there that the last film we went to was UNKNOWN, another Liam Neeson movie. That one, years ago, looked good to me, but I just wasn't getting the dialog at all. We walked out after about ten minutes and I bought the Blu-ray instead. I had less trouble with the dialog at home on my well-tuned sound system and enjoyed the movie.

    OK, flash-forward to last Saturday evening and TAKEN 3. I was pleased to see and hear that someone had fine-tuned our audio system in the ballroom for better sound. Don't know what they did, but it was WAY more intelligible. That is, until this guy showed up:

    [​IMG]

    That's Forest Whitaker, for those not in the know. I find him to be just about the mumbliest actor ever. I enjoy his screen presence and his instantly-recognizable appearance. I've enjoyed a few of his movies, but have noticed that his soft-spoken style means that he doesn't project his delivery very often. His narrations on the latest edition of THE TWILIGHT ZONE left me wondering what he was saying. His attempt at that CRIMINAL MINDS spin-off a few years ago had both me and my wife trying to understand what it was he was saying. And the moment he entered TAKEN 3, our puzzlement over what the heck he was saying grew to the point that we had to rely on the other improvement to our movie night - subtitles.

    I guess since it's an over-55 community, they decided to add the captions to help with folks understanding the movie - and in this case it did. Whenever Liam Neeson and Maggie Grace and Leland Orser were on-screen and speaking, the captions weren't necessary at all. The minute Forest Whitaker started speaking, we all had to resort to the captions to try to understand. Even then, it was like he was saying something other than what was printed on the subtitles.

    So while Whisper-Boy™ on PERSON OF INTEREST is difficult, I nominate this guy, Forest Whitaker to be the mumbliest of mumblers.

    Harry
     
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  22. ServingTheMusic

    ServingTheMusic Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    SoCal
    Great post. Enjoyed it.

    Wasn't he in The Butler? I don't remember him being too bad in that one.
     
  23. jwoverho

    jwoverho Licensed Drug Dealer

    Location:
    Mobile, AL USA
    The critics jumped all over Brando and the mumblers when The Method took the acting world by storm. Richard Burton may have been in love with the sound of his own voice, but he cut right through. The classically trained and stage actors tend to understand the power of the voice. Even Ron Burgundy does his diction exercises!
     
  24. AJH

    AJH Senior Member

    Location:
    PA Northern Tier
    I don't have much of a problem with Caviezel on POI, but for me, Jonny Lee Miller on Elementary is the absolute worst . However, at times I also have problems with Lucy Liu so it probably is a combination of a mixing problem and actors mumbling.
     
  25. ServingTheMusic

    ServingTheMusic Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    SoCal
    The funny thing is, I do understand Brando.
     
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