I need a good subwoofer to review, what are your favorites? Help me!

For seamless integration between main speakers and subwoofer as well as a musical sound, a subwoofer needs a certain feature / performance set-
1) A smooth, flat frequency response (many subwoofers have an inverted U room response that peaks at a given frequency or note, very un-musical).
2) High level connections from the amplifier. The system sounds and integrates better when the subwoofer responds to the same signal that the main speakers respond to. Personally confirmed many times in many applications.
Just saw a video by Paul McGowan, PS audio co-founder who has a video blog and said that high level connections to a sub sound better because the "sound signature" is different for the amplifier and preamplifier. Driving the sub with the preamp outs is a handicap to seamless integration.
3) Continuous phase angle control. A very critical feature that allows you to place the sub where it sounds best and to adjust and integrate the response with the main speakers to avoid peaks and / or valleys in the system around the crossover frequency. Trying to EQ correct your way out of a phase miss-match is a losing battle for good seamless sound and smooth musical response.
4) Polarity switch. Another critical feature that is key for the best integration and smoothest response.

Purchasing a subwoofer without those features and performance is setting yourself up for your system sounding like the typical home theater buzz box, not a full range integrated top to bottom musical sound.

Speaker manufacturer's go to great design, engineering and testing lengths to optimize the magic in their speaker's crossovers between woofer / midrange and tweeter. It is often what separates the good "point source" coherent loudspeakers from the bad and ugly.
The same careful effort and process needs to happen between main speaker and subwoofer and you need the controls and process to do it right.

 

I would say it boils down to distortion level from 30 hz and down at 100+ db.
Magico's Q Sub has 1% distortion at 20 hz. I am sure the Wilson is doing the same.
The Paradigm Sub 1 can do it too.
Seaton Submersive can do it.
The lower cost offerings from JL and SVS can't do it. My lower cost JL Audio d110 is a vibration machine starting from 40 hz and down. I like electronica with low bass loud (overall peak volume of +100 db) sometimes. Thus I notice this issue between my Seaton sub and my JL sub.

 

JL Audio are the best on the market. IMO they can be integrated with any speaker system.

Where do your reviews appear?

 

Proper setup is key whatever brand you buy.

 

Yup, agree. Getting a quality subwoofer is just the first step. The room, the listening position, the subwoofer placement, ability to phase align with speakers, etc are also important. I foresee lots of hard work coming up for Steve.

 

I think that this depends on what your definition is of "lower cost" and it also greatly depends on room size. A couple SVS PB-2000s will will do 20Hz at 100+DB without any issues.

I have both JL & SVS subs in my home (different systems). I'd go SVS over JL in almost any scenario where sub room correction is built-in to the pre-amp/receiver.

The only scenario where I'd go JL over SVS would be in a money-no-object scenario if I were designing dual JL f113v2 subs to run inline off the high-level outputs in a 2-channel setup where room correction for the high-level speakers wasn't an option or desired (not my taste, but I know some people prefer this for mythical reasons that my ears can't understand). In that config, I'd hook everything up using a JL CR-1 active sub crossover and follow JL's guidance for running two Fathoms in Stereo with a two-channel system. The JL is preferred in this scenario because you can run room correction on just the subs and leave the high-level two channels unaffected.

Yes, and I'd also add that subs need room correction.

 

No human can hear 15 hz, but you can hear the overtones. Only the best subs can play this low sounds clear and accurate. Rumble in the lowest register doesn't mean great bass playback. The most important thing is the unit of the sub.

 

I meant 100+ db at 20 hz at 1% distortion. Yeah, my ported version of SVS (older version of PB-2000) can definitely do 100+ db. But it doesn't mean it could do it with only 1% distortion.

 

Personally I'd love to see a review of a pair of REL 212SE's for hifi not cinema. Might be a bit impractical though!
Been talking around these subs on the thread I started here about Avantgarde Trio set up.

 

This is for music, yes Steve? At only $399 apiece I'd recommend a pair of

RSL Speedwoofer 10s'



I have two myself and just love 'em. They're even made in Cali...

 

Good point- I wonder if Warren Jarrett knows a sub integration guru? He sure knows a turntable setup guru, that's for sure.

 

I think that's the best part of SVS' line-up... there's a sub for almost everyone. Need flatter response with less distortion? Just spend more money
Personally though, I'd go with a sealed sub for the type of music listening I do.

 

Wilson will be releasing a new subwoofer to go with the WAMM Master Chronosonic - it supercedes Thor's Hammer.

It's called the WAMM Master Subsonic. You can see a picture on this link.

Mono and Stereo High-End Audio Magazine: WILSON AUDIO WAMM MASTER SUBSONIC

 

Always have liked SVS as I'm on my second. Good quality and great customer service.

 

I, too, would like to learn. Appreciate your time.

I'm a skeptic of traditional home theater or surround sound means and methods. Sub-bass is one of the most discussed topics, along with DSP, and Atmos, etc to the exclusion of the things an audiophile will typically emphasize.

I was going to put you in touch with Andrew Jones since his flagship sub (and speaker line) is hitting the market recently. It would be consider a "toy", but if you can get a sample, then it won't hurt.

The mega hi-end subs from Magico and Wilson are too pricey for nearly any of us, but it would be interesting to compare with JL and SVS flagships. It would also be interesting to get idea of where a mid-priced hi-end Focal or KEF would fit in, "toys" or not.

 

The rationale, in my view, for exposing followers of this thread to the extremes is simple. What's possible in the home if cost is no object? Then, we'd want to understand the performance and decide if it is special. If so, then what is it about the design? And can we find real world priced offerings which deliver a high % of that extraordinary performance?

 

At any price? For everyone?

Seaton
SVS
JTR
JL Audio

ELAC
Focal
KEF
Magico
Wilson

Isn't it fair to look across the entire sub-woofer market? Should Steve limit his consideration to SVS and JL Audio?

Ok. You made the right decision for you. Does someone else's decision undermine your own? Hopefully, we can all share and learn.​

 

$22k MSRP for a subwoofer?
Patently ridiculous.

I own Revel Ultima2 speakers and love them but I would never spring for their subwoofers
or REL, JL, Wilson etc.

Subwoofer are by far the easiest speaker to DIY and have outstanding results.

The specifications are well-known and straight forward.
Realistically unless you have a dedicated theater room, most music with obvious exceptions, doesn't have content that requires the sub to delve that deep.
If you're looking at sustained infrasonic material totally different story.

 

Many good reputable brands and quality products. As long as they include the features and flat response mentioned in post #51 they have a good chance to integrate and disappear.

 

Sure. The likes of Magico and Wilson have nothing on the weekend DIY guys.

 

They don't except having rich customers who equate performance purely by price

 

Yes, the "rich" are the worst. It's as if people with money lose their brain cells somewhere along the way.

So, we can write off subs which cost how much? Just so we all get on the same page.

 

Steve, if you're going to go for it, don't settle for the half measures offered by Wilson, Magico and the rest. The Eminent Techology TRW-17 isn't going to poop out at 15hz or 10hz, flat response to below 1hz can be yours! Eminent Technology