I use amazing Sound Application LineStage power conditioners by Jim Weil. New model 2/24 post #160!

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by Steve Hoffman, Apr 1, 2017.

  1. Lonson

    Lonson I'm in the kitchen with the Tombstone Blues

    My PS Audio P10 has huge heat sinks and does not have a fan. Quieter than a mouse in operation. Love this component!
     
  2. Lonson

    Lonson I'm in the kitchen with the Tombstone Blues

    This used to be an observation I could make as well. Since I've been using power regenerators (about seven years now) the time of day or night does not matter. Another great improvement the right power treatment can bring.
     
    Dave and Mr Bass like this.
  3. timztunz

    timztunz Audioista

    Location:
    Texas
    I'm curious as to any difference(s) you might experience between this power conditioner and the one(s) you were using from Silver Circle Audio? Are you still using Silver Circle Audio?
     
  4. Lonson

    Lonson I'm in the kitchen with the Tombstone Blues

    That should be "preamplifier" not "phone amplifier." Sorry.
     
  5. jupiterboy

    jupiterboy Forum Residue

    Location:
    Buffalo, NY
    Well, any engineer with an objectivist chip on his/her shoulder might emphatically say that any amp with a power supply that could not handle peak demand was a piece of garbage. However, in the real yet experiential world of perception you are probably dealing with filtering and capacitance to reduce 60Hz hum and allow a burst of additional power when demand is peak.

    IMO, power cords act as capacitors and can give you a little more peak power. The designs can also help limit hum/noise.

    This is the same with power distribution, which often includes multi-stage filters and additional capacitance. Clearly, quality of metal and wiring can make a difference here.

    I bought one of the first products like this marketed by Monster (HPS2000). It is hard to say if this brought better performance from my integrated, but it did give me all the grounded outlets I needed in one spot, and in an older house you can have grounding issues using multiple outlets. It also gave me some protection. What I found was that is slowly deteriorated over time and became a problem.

    Right now I'm using Panamax M5300-EX. It has four-stage filtration and also has a grounding post. This is actually much better, but I suspect it will also deteriorate over time, which I largely attribute to the MOV technology.

    If I were replacing the unit I might look to something that did not use MOV. I'd also look for another unit with a grounding point because that is very useful.

    Beyond this, you have power regeneration units, which will always give the same same steady power output with filtering etc. That's probably the best but most expensive path. Honestly, my modest gear doesn't warrant this.

    What I've enjoyed about the Panamax is that it does monitor and give a digital display of the power coming into the unit. It will fluctuate between 119 and 121 volts, so I can see that my power from my direct 20 amp line is as stable as I might have expected.
     
    beowulf likes this.
  6. snorker

    snorker Big Daddy

    I have this Furman Elite-15 PF I. I got it for surge protection and just for the convenience of having everything neatly plugged in. I thought things sounded better after I hooked it up compared to the Belkin power strip I used before, but I really haven't tested it vs. plugging the amp directly into the wall. I may now have to try that.

    [​IMG]
     
  7. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host Thread Starter

    Never compared but David has retired and closed Silver Circle Audio so the point is moot, unless you buy a used one.

    One big difference I did notice, the Sound Application device I can carry. The SCA I couldn't budge at all.
     
    Long Live Analog likes this.
  8. Juan Matus

    Juan Matus Reformed Audiophile

    I will be honest never tried it and don't have much of an opinion. But it sounds an awful lot like when my wife says I have to wash the dishes before I put them in the dishwasher.
     
  9. thegage

    thegage Forum Currency Nerd

    I've used PS Audio (P300, Ultimate Outlets, Power Plant Premier, Duet), Richard Gray (Pole Pig, Substation, 600S), Balanced Power Technologies (2.5 Signature), and Monster (older power strip). The Richard Gray and Monster products had the least beneficial effects. The PS Audio are essential products for me; PPP for everything but my power amp and sub, Duet for those two. About a year back my system started sounding harsh and grating. It drove me crazy for a couple of weeks until I figured out that the PPP had stopped regenerating and was merely passing on what was coming out of my dedicated 20-amp outlet. PS Audio refurbished it and all was well again. The same thing happened again recently when, after a power blip, the PPP did not reset properly and wasn't regenerating (fixed by unplugging all components and restarting the PPP), with the signifier an immediate and noticeable decline in sound quality. I also like the power monitor feature. My voltage fluctuates from 119 to 124V, even though I am the only house on the dedicated high voltage line to the transformer at our house.

    John K.
     
    sushimaster, jupiterboy and Lonson like this.
  10. chacha

    chacha Forum Resident In Memoriam

    Location:
    mill valley CA USA
    I've found it's a trade off plugging my amp into the conditioner or wall. It's a high current amp and the Shunyata I have cleans it up a bit but at the sacrifice of heft and weight. As the amp is a bit lean to begin with, I plug it into the wall.
     
    SandAndGlass likes this.
  11. teag

    teag Forum Resident

    Location:
    Colorado
    Interesting and surprising. The Shunyata you have is fairly expensive ($2K+ from what I see online). I've thought of getting one but now question that thought.
     
  12. chacha

    chacha Forum Resident In Memoriam

    Location:
    mill valley CA USA
    I wouldn't hesitate to try one out. My amp works best plugged into the wall with my turntable, phono stage and pre amp plugged into the Shunyata. Your amp might sound best plugged into the conditioner as well. You never know.
     
    teag likes this.
  13. DPM

    DPM Senior Member

    Location:
    Nevada, USA
    For my main two-channel rig I use a Synergistic Research Powercell 10 SE with Element Copper-Tungsten power cable plugged into a Tesla duplex receptacle. When I made the switch to this unit from my previous Monster Cable Voltage Regulator I noticed that the system (I had at the time) acquired more dynamics and low level resolution. However, there is no surge protection or voltage regulation with the Powercell 10SE. So whenever a lightning storm is looming I unplug the unit from the wall and wait out the weather-related fireworks.

    As for my home theater setup, I have the universal player, prepro, SACD player, and power amps plugged into a Torus RM Series toroidal isolation conditioner. The plasma TV, Velodyn DD12 subwoofer and Direct TV satellite cable box are plugged into a Panamax M5100PM conditioner which, in turn, is plugged into the Torus. I figure that these items (particularly the plasma TV) are probably the biggest noise generators and isolating them in there own power conditioner can't hurt. So far, so good.
     
  14. beowulf

    beowulf Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chula Vista, CA
    I'm a proponent of good audio cables such as speaker and interconnects, but I've tried a lot of power cables such as Shunyata, Decware, Bolder and Zen Wave (probably the best performing out of the ones I've tried) to name a few and have found little to no dramatic difference in my system ~ especially for the money that some of these cost. Through my own experimentation I have found the "least" bang for the buck to be in power cables, conditioning and (yes I'm a little bit embarrassed to say I tried them) fuses.

    I currently have a Monster HTS 3600 that I bought almost 12 years ago for around $350 and it's still running strong, but with all the talk about power filtration in this hobby I wanted to try another type of power unit so I purchased the much touted Shunyata MPC12-C as I have both digital and analog gear in my setup. For the cost of this unit @ $2500 I was expecting it to trounce my Monster unit. I have an Entech Powerline Noise Analyzer and when hooked up to the Monster unit it barely has any noise at all ~ you really have to listen hard to make anything out, but when I hooked it up to the MPC12-C it turned out to be so noisy I literally couldn't believe it. Here a (albeit entry level for Shunyata) $2500 power unit got bitch slapped by a 12 year old Monster that cost one seventh the price of the MPC12-C. I was sorely disappointed and sent it back after experimenting with it for a few weeks, luckily I bought it through Music Direct and they let me return it without any hassle.

    Similarly, I have read a review on Six Moons about the Blue Horizon Noise Analyzer , which is similar to (but a little more high tech) the Entech unit and where a PS Audio P10 was noisier than their previous model Power Plant Premier. Which just goes to show that you pay a huge amount for this stuff with results that are only marginal.

    If I was going to get a new unit over the Monster I have now I would look to non MOV based surge suppression like the Brick Wall or SurgeX designs, which Zen Wave Audio also modifies the SurgeX units with better parts and outlets. I have demo'ed a ZenWave edition SurgeX and it bested the Shunyata by a large margin IMO and sounded pretty good for the cost. This piece of gear is on my list if/when I replace the Monster anytime soon. I think it's better to spend money on the actual gear ... which a lot of these power products cost more that what's hooked up to them.
     
    jupiterboy likes this.
  15. chacha

    chacha Forum Resident In Memoriam

    Location:
    mill valley CA USA
    Really? I've found that power cables can make a huge difference in sound depending on the component. Value for the dollar is another matter though.
     
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  16. Elton

    Elton I Hope Being Helpful, Will Make Me Look Cool

    Location:
    Carson Ca.
    I started a Monster HTS 3500 MKII way back in the 90's, and there was an improvement (more dynamics, low-level resolution, and better soundstage with my Yamaha M-70) but, as the others here have stated, it's the little things. The monster unit had a fixed cord, so I was tied to that. So that got me started with the connections, Wattgate wall outlets, another part that helped put the system together (helped to take more of the grain in the sound). In the early 2000's I got a Furman ELITE-20 PF I for my system and moved the Monster to the Television system. That was amazing, my Adcon 5500 had sounded really good with the Monster but with the Furman and Furutech wall plug (I had gotten about a year before) my amp almost took on a new life. I quickly got the Furman a basic aftermarket audiophile power cord with impressive results. I looking to upgrade the power cord before, upgrading or replacing the Amp, it that time of the season! I'm so glad I got into power conditioners!

     
    Lonson likes this.
  17. action pact

    action pact Music Omnivore

    I bought my modest Monster Power Center for a mere $40 used, purchased with the hope of taming hum from my vintage tube amp. What I didn't expect was also a substantially quicker, more dynamic presentation, greater imaging vividness, etc. etc. And that was from a $40 Monster!
     
    SandAndGlass likes this.
  18. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host Thread Starter

    I am so looking forward to Jim's new design. His power conditioners really rocked my world, and that's saying something..
     
  19. Boulder Bob

    Boulder Bob Senior Member

    Location:
    Boulder, CO
    how do you buy Jim's products? I see no pricing or dealer info on his website
     
  20. Rob9874

    Rob9874 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Surprise, AZ
    Never thought about benefits of plugging directly into the wall. What about with my inexpensive AVR? Should I be going directly into the wall outlet vs a power strip? On a budget, should I look into a better solution than my Monster power strip?
     
  21. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host Thread Starter

    Buzz him:

    SOUND APPLICATION
     
  22. bgiliberti

    bgiliberti Will You Be My Neighbor?

    Location:
    USA
    The Audio Research rep at the show I was at recommended against the power regeneration types, but it was busy and I never got a chance to ask if he meant generally, or just for AR gear. I assume the latter; it was tube gear we were listening to, so maybe he just meant tube gear. Is there a rule of thumb on the two types of power conditioning for tubes vs SS.?
     
    SandAndGlass likes this.
  23. Lonson

    Lonson I'm in the kitchen with the Tombstone Blues

    I use a PS Audio P10 power regenerator with my Decware Torii Mk III power amp, ZP3 power amp, and Taboo Mk III headphone amp, all all-tube components plugged into the P10. Each sounds improved using the P10, neither sounds better plugged into the wall. I don't believe there's a problem using tube components with the appropriately spec'd power regenerator.
     
  24. ElvisCaprice

    ElvisCaprice Forum Resident

    Location:
    Jaco, Costa Rica
    head_unit likes this.
  25. frimleygreener

    frimleygreener "It 'a'int why...it just is"

    Location:
    united kingdom
    "single wire crystals, each 350 feet long. This wire sounds amazingly smooth." A single wire crystal 350 feet long? Do I need to change my medication?
     
    SandAndGlass likes this.

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