If SMiLE had been completed in 1967, who thinks it would have blown Sgt. Pepper out of the water?

Yea, I Just Don't Get It !

 

It's patently absurd to be dismissive of a song like ""A Day in the Life".

 

Sgt. Pepper = masterpiece = I want to listen to album in its entirety and often

Smile (finished or not) = flawed masterpiece = I am compelled to skip songs and listen to just the ones I like. The number of songs I like < the number of songs I want to skip

Big difference......

 

Having said that, though, I must admit that I enjoy listening to the Anne Wallace mix of Smile. ✌️

 

For being innovative sure, but as a song I've never really liked it.

 

so sad they never completed even after pet sounds was such a good seller.

 

To be honest, I feel both Sgt. Pepper's, and Smile (any version) are inferior to the records that preceded them - in the Beatles' case, Revolver, and Pet Sounds in The Beach Boys' case. I like Heroes and Villains and Good Vibrations but honestly...I think part of the appeal of Smile is the fact that it was never finished. If it had been finished and released I don't think it would've gotten a very good reaction. Love You, to me, is Brian's real masterpiece. Smile is better as a myth than an album.

 

Two words
WreckIng crew

 

Yet the argument could be made that “Good Vibrations”, “Surf’s Up”, and “Heroes and Villains” are better than any song on Pepper....with the exception of maybe “A Day in the Life”.

But the question here is about albums, not songs. So for me, Smile is ultimately a whole that’s less than the sum of its parts.

 

It was finished and released circa 2004 and got a great reaction. It was a strong seller and got many rave reviews - and it didn't even have any Beach Boys (other than Brian) playing or singing on it!

 

Yes but if it was finished and released in 1967 - without nearly 40 years of hype and buildup - and with a much less tolerant or open-minded audience - I don't think it would've fared well. Pet Sounds didn't do well commercially for example. 2004 is a very different world from 1967. The audience used to the Beach Boys being quirky, and not being all about surfing and cars, wasn't there yet in 1967. That took several albums and decades to develop. Pet Sounds was a great record but it was a WTF moment for them, and if released in '67, Smile would've been an even bigger WTF.

One also has to remember that, as esoteric as Good Vibrations might be, it is also underneath the technical innovation a very well crafted pop song that can be seen as being about a girl. Smile as an album is not nearly as accessible musically or lyrically as that single was. Heroes & Villains for example did not do anywhere near as well as a single as Good Vibrations did.

 

But "Good Vibrations", which followed, did. But that's because Mike wrote boy/girl lyrics.

 

And Good Vibrations arguably had more of a hook (musically) than most of the Smile material. Look at the lukewarm at best reception to Heroes and Villains upon release as a single, and H&Vs was supposed to be one of the centerpieces of Smile.

 

SMiLE isn't a whole though... it was never finished and the versions in this century are awkward mash-ups.

There may be some people here who voted for SMiLE based strictly on the official releases. But I suspect that most are like me; they imagine SMiLE in a wonderful form after tinkering with the ingredients through the years. It doesn't matter what's missing because what's there is such an embarrassment of riches.

2-1/2 years ago on this thread I said that Pepper always sounded kind of square to me. Song wise, it has only a couple of my personal Beatles favorites. I always thought that Within You, Without You and A Day In The Life stood head and shoulders above the rest.

 

Good Vibrations > Sgt/Little Help
Wonderful > She's Leaving Home
Cabin Essence > Mr. Kite
Heroes & Villains > Within/Without Yew
Fire > Lovely rita
Wind Chimes > Lucy In Sky
Do You Like Worms > Getting Better
Vegetables > Good Morning
Surf's Up > A Day In The Life
Prayer > Inner Groove

Oh yeah! Do you feel that? DO YA?!?!



MORE MORE MORE....HOWDOYA LIKE IT HOWODYA LIKE IT

 

I dunno. I think the timing was just right.
The Beach Boys had a big audience before Pet Sounds but it didn't match their previous success.

 

I think H&V makes more sense as an album track than a single.

It is certainly possible that the record buying public would have been baffled by SMiLE and given it a quick, bum rap, but I don't think so. If the album had been released as planned/hoped, Good Vibrations would have provided plenty of momentum. I believe that the Rock audience would have been intrigued by SMiLE. People were looking for challenging music back then, not scoffing at it.

 

I agree, "Heroes and Villains" wasn't a good choice for single. But then none of the tracks make sense as singles. It was an album. He was wrong to shift gears and focus on a hit single instead of finishing the album. There is no hit single amongst these songs. Like Pepper there should have been no singles.

 

I think the problem is that, to paraphrase one of their songs, The Beach Boys simply weren't "made for (those) times." I mean, half of rock has always been image. You have this band of all-American short-haired guys, which until two years prior, had been all about cars, girls, and such, and all the sudden they become this very introspective act on Pet Sounds, which throws fans for a loop...And then go ALL THE WAY into Psychedelia with Smile...The rock audience might've appreciated it but I feel like the late 1960s were a Catch-22 for The Beach Boys. They were too square for the hip crowd and becoming rapidly too "out there" for the square crowd. Maybe they could've rode the wave of Good Vibrations but...The problem with Smile is that none of the songs are as good as Good Vibrations.

Look at The Stones and Beatles in comparison. Rubber Soul and Aftermath set up those two bands descent into psychedelia much better than Today! and Pet Sounds did for The Beach Boys. And even with a year and two album build toward Psychedelia, TSMR for the Stones was still heavily criticized.

Look at The Doors debut as both an example of a band that succeeded with psychedelia and a California band that transcended their origins. The Doors' debut is psychedelia but every song is accessible; every song is trimmed with a pop edge regardless of how weird it is. Even The End has at, at "the end" of the day a pop structure outside of the last parts of the song. Smile, much like Pet Sounds, doesn't really have a lot of songs you can sing along to. It's very dense, and the themes are more esoteric to your average music listener than even Pet Sounds was.

And again, when you look at those these other bands, they're bands who always had a much less "Mickey Mouse" and more rock-friendly image than The Beach Boys.

 

And that is the problem. I don't much like Sgt. Peppers but...You have some objectively great hit singles on that record. When I'm 64, L.S.D., and With a Little Help from My Friends are both psychedelic...and single-ready. The record market in '67 was as much about singles as albums.

 

Warmth of the Sun, Please Let Me Wonder, She Knows Me Too Well, Let Him Run Wild, The Lonely Sea, In My Room, In The Back of My Mind.....not exactly "all of a sudden". But yeah, the kids like 'feel good music', and aside from "Sloop John B" and "Wouldn't It Be Nice" there aren't any songs to party to on "Pet Sounds".

 

Look at the reception to the Stones' Satanic Majesties' Request...You only really had two songs on that record which would make for great singles (She's a Rainbow and 2000 Light-Years). I think part of the bum reception which that album got is the lack of single material. The Doors' debut and Pink Floyd's debut were just as weird as Smile and TSMR and just as exploratory musically but they also made sure to "pepper" the record with radio friendly songs. Smile doesn't really have that.

 

It's not much of an argument when you consider The Beatles standing and sustained critical acknowledgement is rightly or wrongly untouched in the history of music. It wouldn't have happened. The Beatles created something you just need to accept that exists in it's own unique way. If you don't realise then you don't understand how popular music is viewed.

If you want to argue it from a muso perspective then fine but the OP title is frankly ludicrous...and I say that not really as a very big Beatles fan.

 

The Fabs listened routinely to Summer Days and Today most of 1965. When Rubber Soul came out December 1965, as Brian was listening to Soul he became aggrevated as the Fabs were implying all the songs on Souls were a complete album. Brian liked Soul immensely but Wilson was like "Oh' your implying that every song is good on an album with Soul", Brian already had done the same with both of the afore mentioned albums.
Brian's competitive fires were stoked for the Sounds 1966.

 

I'm not sure what you mean by the bolded?