If SMiLE had been completed in 1967, who thinks it would have blown Sgt. Pepper out of the water?

I couldn’t have said it better myself. Brian also needed an executive producer, to keep him on track...maybe Gary Usher.

 

And in a sad twist of irony, PET SOUNDS wouldn't be half of what is is without acid, as Brian has admitted to being on LSD during the writing and making of the album. VERY sad.

And a related question: who tripped first? Brian or The Beatles?

 

Well, BW has gone on record to say the intro to California Girls was the first thing to come from out of his first experiments IIRC, so I think he tripped first.

The casualties are indeed sad, but the doors opened to expanded creativity produced some fine moments, that's not debatable.

 

Sad someone has to destroy ones mind with any drug but Brian on LSD WOW!! The creativity was so good it was scary.

 

Brian with LSD is a prime example of the old "light burning way too bright" cliche.

SUMMER DAYS/California Girls, PET SOUNDS, SMiLE, and then poof.

Obviously this isn't meant to discredit anything great he did post-SMiLE, but you know what I mean...

 

On Tool's song "Third Eye" they sample a bit from Bill Hicks where he says: "See, I think drugs have done some good things for us, I really do. And if you don't believe drugs have done good things for us, do me a favor - go home tonight and take all your albums, all your tapes, and all your CDs and burn 'em. Cause you know what? The musicians who've made all that great music that's enhanced your lives throughout the years... rrrrrrrrrrrrreal f___ing high on drugs"

On the other hand, I was watching the Showtime special on Pet Sounds the other day, and one of the interviewees reflected that if Pet Sounds was just the product of drug use then you would have had a million Pet Sounds back in the sixties. And we don't. We still just have one.

My view is that Brian Wilson had (has?) an innate musical genius, that drugs made it easier for him to channel his gift from his subconscious into his songwriting, and this produced some of the most beautiful music of our time. But like Jung said, (paraphrasing) when you open that door, you don't know what you're going to find. Out of respect for the man I won't speculate any further. But I agree with the above post, that he clearly pushed himself too hard.

Smile to me to me is like music from dreams. It's beautiful and emotional, but irrational. It sounds like pieces of a puzzle that can be put together, but when you try to put it together the pieces don't quite fit. You feel like you can reach out and grab it, but then it slips away. Have you ever tried to tie your shoe laces in a dream? Impossible.

The Beatles had a rational thinker on hand with George Martin. I think Brian could have used a George Martin -- someone who understood and appreciated the art, but was able to package it.

Would Smile have eclipsed Sgt Pepper in 1967? I wasn't alive, but my father was really into music at that time ("yeah, I hitchhiked to Woodstock...") Based on what he tells me rock was where it was at. Smile doesn't rock. Sgt. Pepper does. Smile probably would have performed like Pet Sounds and Sgt. Pepper probably would have still gone down as the best rock album ever made.

Of course, if Smile was completed in 67, then we wouldn't have had the greatest interactive art project of all time. Instead of George Martin, Brian ended up with hundreds (thousands?) of us creating our own Smiles...

Sorry for the long post, I'm still new here. But I love the music of Brian Wilson, so wanted to contribute!

--Rich

 

No.
Smile is overrated so very much, as are the Beach Boys. They had a small period when they were great but thats all, imo.

 

Don't you dare apologize... fantastic post!

 

Thanks a lot man, really appreciate it!

 

Although they went through some slumps like most bands, I question whether it's even possible to overrate The Beach Boys, a band of angels (musically at least) lead by one of the 20th century's greatest musical artists. SMiLE could have been but wasn't their magnum opus in 1967 and it became their magnum opus much later. Even Smiley Smile is a quirky masterwork.

 

Nope, Smile has some interesting - and occasionally brilliant - music, but overall it is a mess and not anywhere near as good as Sgt Pepper.

 

Exactly, without the innate musical talent, opening doors with mind altering substances can and do have embarrassing, crash-and-burn results. Some of the worst psych-era, go nowhere guitar noodling exercises in powerful, mind-numbing boredom were produced by people who somehow thought pot or acid would channel out some inner musical magic and genius. In the cases of real musical talent (Brian Wilson, John Lennon and many others), it opened a new era of creative experiment. With others -- who fell for the spell that they'd channel some inner secret genius with or that chemical additive -- zip, garbage in garbage out.

 

So aside from those musicians who paid the *ultimate* price with drug use, would it be safe to consider Brian to be one of the biggest drug casualties in music history, or is that label aimed more towards people like Syd Barrett?

Sorry for steering this topic off sides a little bit, but this really is an interesting side discussion.

 

We'll never know, but my instincts tell me that the drugs were only a contributing factor, if at all. He was 24-years old at the time and his mental illness was looming. He'd suffered a nervous breakdown, his panic attacks forced him to stop touring.

Children of three families who were good friends of my parents developed schizophrenia in their early-to-mid-20's. They all appeared to be relatively normal as kids and teenagers; one of them was the Prom Queen in high school, a beautiful and charismatic woman. If their illness was triggered by anything, it was the stress of college life (and Brian Wilson was under an enormous amount of pressure). In the case of those family friends, I think it was an irreversible biological course; they got straight-A's for the first few years of college... and then they started hearing voices.

 

It’s been said before, Brian has a happy childhood and an abusive father who couldn’t stand that his son was more talented than he was. Brian was fragile, the drugs made things worse. I don’t know the first thing about Barrett, but Piper and half of Saucerful don’t make up for the music Brian wrote between 62 and 67/68, IMO.

 

Yes. One of the saddest casualties. Don't believe me? Pay for one of his meet and greets and try to have a conversation with him. Lights are on in the attic but nobody is home.

 

While Smile is my favorite Beach Boys album (saw them in 1967 and still fondly remember hearing Heroes and Villians for the first time) no way it beats Sgt. Peppers, much less blow it out of the water.

Undercard for the Beach Boys concert, Strawberry Alarm Clock and Buffalo Springfield. Yea, it was a great night at the John M. Parker Ag Center at LSU.

 

I think Smile would have been much like Pet Sounds, not a huge seller but profoundly influential.However at the time I think A Day In the Life would have been viewed as more innovative.

It wasn't a fair fight, two against one IMHO.

 

I agree. But I love how his brothers closed ranks around him when things got tough. Not everyone has a support system like that.

I don't know how thoroughly it's been explored, but when you start thinking about it how many famous (and not famous) writers, painters and musicians have had mental health issues, I think trying to live a "normal" life with that sort of creativity must be pretty difficult.