I'm Downgrading My Cart And I'm Glad!!

I almost never downgrade anything in my A/C chain (and in fact I'm upgrading my TV soon) but this time I'm actually Downgrading my cart. Heres why:

My musical tastes in Vinyl are very specific. I play 1950s/60 Rock and Surf Instrumentals 95 % of the time. I have a bunch of those 'Budget" label Lps like Design, Cornet, Modern, Crown, etc.
I really like some of those, especially "The Beats" a 1964 Beatles soundalike band.
My amp is an EICO ST-40 with vintage valves, and a set of Tannoy Saturns (floor standers).

I have been using a Denon DL-103R on my Rega RP3. And it sounds fine. But it has two issues that bother me:

1) The cart has a nice, wide frequency range, but it really doesnt have "balls". Those Ventures Mosrite guitars dont really have the "bite" they should, they sound a bit too smooth.

2) Surface Noise: So many of my LPs are in not the greatest condition. The Dl-103R REALLY shows the surface noise, even on Lps that I didnt think were so bad. At times, it really annoys me.

3) For those LPs in not so great condition , I have a second table, a Rega P3 with a 1970s Shure M95Ed cart, and a Jico EVS stylus (Ebay, 15 bucks!) to play them with.

So the other day, I decided to listen to my Rare Stereo LP of Johnny and The Hurricanes "Red River Rock" from 1959. I put it on the RP3 with the DL-103r . FEHHH. No bite to the Sax, Drums, or that blistering Guitar solo. And Way too much surface noise in between the tracks.

So I put the Lp on the P3 with the Shure M95ED.

Oh My Gosh.

Perfect!! The Sax had that brassy bite it should have, the Drums slam, and the Guitar solo has that nasty edge that its supposed to have, THIS is how a 1959 Johnny and The Hurricanes record should sound. Surface noise reduced like 70%.

So, I bought another Shure M95Ed and jico stylus, and I'll be installing it in my Rega Rp3. This will be for records in better shape, and the P3 for records in poorer shape.
Sure, it sounds like I'm nuts. But its all in the sound coming out of the Speakers.

 

Nothing about this is nuts, it's simply a matter of what you like.

I currently prefer my Shure over my SoundSmith Carmen. It's not that the Carmen is a low performance cart, it's more that I just like what the Shure does well. It's smooth, forgiving, low in surface noise, and works well with a wide range of music.

Best of all, no expensive retips and PITA realignments.

 

Helom...yes, thats the big bonus: For 15 bucks I can replace the stylus with a true Jico stylus.

 

Agreed, I did the same thing (V15V/M97XE) and my Carmen is also in the box.

M~

 

The combination of s Shure cartridge
And Jico stylus is an excellent one.
I use such a combination . You are not the first person to find this combination so enjoyable, the path to heaven is not always the most costly one

 

Vintage cart for vintage vinyl. Makes perfect sense.

 

My old Shure M44E sounds pretty dang good. Especially on Tin Pan Alley

 

Thanks! I will carefully align it.

 

Also....wouldnt the Jico stylus help with the mistracking?

 

Currently have two turntables and the one that's the most fun to listen to and gets the most use has a NOS Stanton 500 cartridge on it. Love this thing.

 

I love threads like this. For the m97xe users, I understand the JICOs are great but they are expensive. Have you tried the LPGear 97vxl vivid line stylus? It's $115 and if it is an improvement over the Shure stylus, and gets anywhere close to the JICO, it's something I'll plan to try. What say you?

 

The 95 or the 97? Can you be more specific?

 

You probably need a step up for the Denon DL-103R , with the low output it would
lack dynamics.

 

For this kind of music, a good conical stylus is usually all that is needed - I have an Audio Technica ATS-10 and it does a great job with many of my '50 and '60s records.

 

Common sense to me. Play what sounds best.

 

i got shot of my expensive carts and now use a Sumiko Pearl. Never been happier.

 

I highly suspect that the Rega arm was just a mismatch for the DL-103R. I'm using a standard DL-103 on a Jelco SA-750D with added mass at both ends, and it has none of the issues you had. Your description of wimpy, noisy performance seems to confirm it. Congrats on finding a better match with the Shure!

I listen to a lot of the same crunchy old rock'n'roll too.
(Be sure to visit the Norton Records store again before they close in a few weeks!)

On a related note, I "downgraded" my speakers a few months ago, from KEF LS50's ($1500) to Wharfedale Denton 80th Anniversary ($1000 list, $399 on markdown). Either I prefer the presentation of kevlar to metal drivers, or the Dentons are an easier load for my vintage Fisher, or something else entirely, it just worked out better. The better bass extension of the Dentons was definitely a factor. Pocketing some cash was nice too!

 

Thanks Action. I tend to agree with your theory.
Sometimes there is a special synergy between components.

Yes, I plan to visit Norton Records this week. They are not far from me.

And yea, pocketing some cash is always welcome!

Rock On!

 

To clarify, you are talking of the Shure M95Ed mentioned in the thread rather than the AT95E etc?

 

I hear you. I wanted to upgrade my Clearaudio Concept MC V1, which is about a $75o cartridge these days, and originally sold for $999. I was trying to decide between moving coil cartridges in the $2,000-$3,500 range (or more), but pulled the trigger on an Ortofon/KAB Concorde Pro S fitted with the Ortofon 40 stylus. I've found, to my surprise that for 1/10 of what I was prepared to spend, this is a pretty nice cartridge. The Fritz Gyger 70 stylus (superior specs to a Shibata) traces inner grooves amazingly well. You lose a touch of that moving coil "airiness" but it's got a great punchiness and midrange forwardness that the moving coil lacked.

I'll pull the trigger on another moving coil eventually I'm sure, but in the interim, it's hard to beat this for the price.

I've also got a Shure M35X in the rotation for styrene 45s...I wonder how that might sound with a better stylus...

 

No and stop. I'll explain. The (and I OWN them) LP Gear is no where close to a SAS. It's much better than the stock as project a wider and deeper image. If you want to get as close as possible to the SAS for the least amount of money, then get the JICO Elliptical (which I also own) it also has a wider and deeper image than the stock and kills the Vivid line in the mid and upper end. It's a sweet little stylus. Now, if you never heard a SAS the Vivid line you will be perfectly happy with it. But once you hear it, you'll realize how far the Vivid line is from it.

All the above opinions are my own and no stylus was hurt during the testing and analysis of the above items while listening to them for weeks and arriving at my conclusion.

M~

 

If mostly playing 50's/60's records, it's best to use a conical stylus. Replacement stylii are not all the same and will most probably sound different. I stick to the original brand stylii, if I have to replace one. I play so many different formats of records that I have to use different cartridges. My main cartridge is the Shure M97xe but I use a Pickering NP/AC with conical stylus to play the 50's/60's mono LP's.

 

It will probably sound similar to a V15-V, which is said to have almost identical internals, albeit made from high quality materials.

 

You're not nuts. You know what the records you play are like, you know how your system sounds, you know what you like, you listen with your own ears, and are rational and common sense. You saw things in a more mature and enlightened way. Yes, you had an epiphany. Welcome to a new way of listening to records. This post is McLover Endorsed and Approved!!