In need of direction...

Good evening all.

I have been reading posts on this forum and a few others for the better part of 3-4 months. I am by no means an audiophile but continue to learn more from some of the very knowledgeable people on this forum each time I read a post. However, at the same time, the more I read the more confused I get about what I want/need. This is my first post so please bear with me.

I want to bring music back into our home (short version is I gave away what little equipment I had during a move several years ago), not just the 7" x 4" computer speakers I use currently. My wife and I, like many of you, love music. We have a young family (7 and 5 yr olds) that love music and movies. We constantly have music playing while eating, talking, singing or dancing. My kids and wife love movies. I have visited a number of local audio shops and want to keep things simple and local. All three shops I have visited have pointed me towards an AVR, either a Marantz or Anthem. Seems logical enough, for now. Its not too difficult to see, or read, that these are not often thought highly of on this forum but I am hoping you will be willing to offer help and a bit of direction. I have read about synergy and don't totally understand this theory but it seems to make sense. Whichever AVR I purchase I want to make certain it is audio/musically driven first and video second. I want to hook up a turntable and questioning whether to get an AVR with phono built in or add phone stage after the fact.

I am looking to get a pair of floor standing speakers, AVR and turntable. Here are the specifics:

Budget: approx $2500 for all.
Room size: 25'l x 17'w x 11't, vaulted ceilings
Speakers will be at corners of room along the short side, approx 15' apart (book cases and ent unit take up wall).
Musical tastes: me - folk, jazz, acoustic, alt, punk, jam; everyone else - top 40.
Ease of use: airplay/wi-fi would be nice for the wife to use with the keiki's when I am not home
Will connect: TT, universal cd/dvd player, tv

I have auditioned:

Speakers:

- B&W 684 S2
- Paradigm Monitor 9 & 11
- Golden Ear Triton 7
- Vandersteen 1Ci (not yet)
- Tekton Lore (not yet, don't know that I can)​

AVR:

- Marantz SR5009
- Marantz SR6009
- Anthem MRX 310
- Anthem MRX 510​

Turntable:

- None yet - interested in an entry level unit with auto/semi auto features (grew up on this kind), looking at Thorens 158 or Denon DP300. I have yet to audition anything but have a modest collection (nearly 100) of new and used vinyl sitting waiting to be spun once again.
​

If you have made it this far and are willing to offer some direction I appreciate you taking the time to do both.

Thank you.

 

Some thoughts...
My system is based around the Pioneer lx86, bought just after the 2013 lx87 came out so was discounted by 50%. Look to see if last years model meets your requirements. I would look for 7.2, airplay, networking and 7.2 preouts.

The preouts allowed me to improve the stereo audio capability, later, by sending front left & right to a separate "audiophile" power amp.

Speakers, I had a old 5.1 system, you could look to a cheap 5.1 package (say http://www.amazon.com/JBL-CS6100BG-...1417&sr=1-42&keywords=Surround+Speaker+System) use this for surrounds and look at the better floor standers for front left and right.

Phono input, even with the Pioneer £2000 it's phono stage was beaten by the £80 Rega fono mini. So I wouldn't make a phono input a priority.

I really can't advise on specific kit in the US (the speakers just jumped out on Amazon as quite a deal)

 

Thank you for the input Colin.

I was leaning that direction with the phono input. Seems like the additional money for a built in phono stage may be high in comparison to buying a dedicated one after the fact.

 

I just re-read my first post and noticed there is a lot of information and not a lot of questions. Rookie!

I am open to looking for any input/suggestions on the equipment I have listed or input on other equipment to consider.

 

Hi Honu,

How welded are you to the idea of AV? Do you really want (or need) a surround system if the audio side of things is your priority? For my money, I would consider keeping things simple. For now at least. - A simple integrated audio amplifier and a single pair of floor-standing speakers and a turntable (I presume you are thinking of using your own existing universal CD/DVD player?)

That said, it will come as little surprise to those who have read my previous posts that I recommend Rega - You can't really go wrong with their Brio R integrated amplifier (which has a very nice built in phono stage and plenty of inputs for your TV, DVD etc), their RS 3 floorstanding speakers and a RP1 turntable. With simple cabling etc, this lot should come within your budget and just works very well indeed.

US retail prices appear to be approx. $895 for the Brio, $1,395 for the RS3 speakers and $445 for the RP1 turntable (with their entry level cartridge). There are often very good deals online though...

 

Thank you moomaloo.

I am not necessarily set on the idea of an AV. Also, I am not really interested in a surround system. I do want to keep things simple and am very interested in the idea of the integrated amp. Honestly, I don't know that I understand them. Each of the three local shops I have visited seem to point me towards the AVR. I am not blaming them as I am certain it is my answers to the questions they ask, primarily to those about the ease of use, wi-fi, internet/streaming music, etc... that they are pointing me towards an AVR. And yes, I will be connecting to my existing DVD/CD player. I like the idea of an all in one piece of equipment, but there are features I don't think I'll use in the AVR.

If I went integrated amp as opposed to going AVR, what do I loose/gain? And, please forgive the ignorant question, but if I went integrated amp can I meet the needs described above (connect TT, DVD/CD, TV, streaming music (Spotify))?

Thanks again moomaloo.

 

You can connect all of the things on your list. To stream music you will need some sort of streamer - something like an Airport Express or some other wireless streaming device.

The only obvious thing you will miss is the ability to hook up a surround sound system but if you are happy with the TV/DVD in stereo only through the two speakers then you will be good to go.

 

The Paradigm Monitor 11 are seriously good speakers for the money. They do it all- deep bass with exceptional impact, great vocals and imaging, clean clear highs. Not a harsh note whatsoever. Sounds great with a wide variety of music and recordings.

 

When you first start out an AVR is just fine for playing back 2 channel or multichannel sound. In fact, you may never outgrow it. Marantz makes some fantastic AVRs. If you like them, you can stop looking and get the one that suits your budget. You can also find their SACD/DVD players used on eBay for a fraction of their new price. They are great first units as well. For speakers, depending on what's left in your budget AVR I can highly suggest the KEF LS50s or the KEF Q series. If you get the LS50s you may never want to/ have to look for speakers again. That said.. if you are like me you'll want a sub (or 2 ) as well. But that can always be added down the road.

As for a turntable.. two things to think about. #1, it's likely not in your current budget to get great sound from a turntable. A good table does require a decent cash outlay. $500 gets you playing ball. #2 Most current AVRs don't have a great phono in, which means a pre-amp, which means again more $.

 

Good two-channel sound should create a strong phantom center channel and place other elements of the recording in a three-dimensional space. Typically, the vocalist is going to be in the center at a certain depth and height. The image will also have width. If you can work with the placement of two speakers, you can get some flavor of this basic effect, but often in a small area only. It may be that an analog source, tube amplification and certain elements of speaker design work together to determine the size and specificity of this effect. In addition, you have distortion and tonality—the sound of certain driver materials and the way certain circuits render sound. Everyone has different ideas of what is ideal.

You also have a handfull of electonics matches from source to preamp to amp to speakers, which play into this and into the efficiency with which the gear you have presents the music.

The other side of the coin is an active, digitally corrected sytem, two- or multichannel, which can be optimized and tightly controlled for flattest frequency response and other parameters.

Maybe the first thing to do is to consider how much ability you will have to vary the placement.

The Vandersteens should give you a good soundstage and a musical presentation.

 

Thank you again moomaloo.

The more I read about the integrated amp the more interested in that I become. How do the Marantz integrated amps compare to the Rega Brio?

 

Thank you avanti1960.

I do like the Paradigm Monitor 11's. Still waiting to audition the Vandersteen's before making the big decision.

 

Thank you dnuggett.

I will look into the speakers you suggested. I am interested in the floor standing more than the stand mounted so I will take a look at the Q series. As mentioned above, I am starting to lean towards the integrated amp idea more so than the AVR. Maybe this will loosen things up for the phono stage, hopefully built in.

 

Thanks Jupiterboy.

I am limited in the spacing and therefore placement of the speakers. They will likely be placed in a 2' x 2' area in the corners of the room. Not a lot of space to pull them away from walls or book case. With this in mind, would any the speakers I listed above be better than others in this application? I have also been reading good things about PSB, though limited info on the Imagine X2T's which are in the same price range as those I listed above.

 

Integrated makes a lot of sense. Look at the Yamahas. I still think you'll need a phono stage though.

 

Hard to say. Take time and listen, and put together a good test disc—something low (I use a choral recording with pip organ), something live (so you can hear the space of the hall), something with pace, and something a little hot or sibilant. Let your ears learn the speakers. What sounds good on first listen often can become strident and annoying down the line.

 

Music is my first priority, but I connect my TV to my amp optically via a DAC. Sounds pretty cinematic at times

 

If you're looking for an A/V receiver, you should consider Onkyo's currently* $299 TX NR626. For your budget a less expensive receiver enables you to spend more on the rest of the system. I managed to find an Onkyo TX SR 605 at a thrift store fop $50, was shocked at how nice the amp sections are. If you want surround sound, consider the Onkyo coupled with the Pioneer SP-PK52FS speaker system. That's about $1000, gives you $1500 for a 'table and a digital source, though if you already have a Blu-Ray player you can spend more on a good turntable as the Onkyo has a phono preamp. I happen to think surround sound is worth it and know the Pioneer speakers are really excellent. You might also want to consider the SVS Prime Satellite 5.1 system $1000—just got a rave review in "Sound And Vision":

http://www.soundandvision.com/content/svs-prime-satellite-51-speaker-system-review

* http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/buy/Receivers/ci/2517/N/4041617488

http://hometheaterreview.com/onkyo-tx-nr626-av-receiver-reviewed/

http://www.digitaltrends.com/speaker-reviews/pioneer-sp-pk52fs-review/#/2

 

+1 on the Rega Brio R and RS3, I have these paired with Rega's DAC, Apollo CD and RP6 (and REL T3, Apple mini). Just remember movies do sound best on dedicated surround sound systems. I love my Rega kit for music but for movies there is no substituting a properly set up/calibrated AVR and surround speaker set. The biggest challenge in surround sound has always been dealing with the speaker runs.



LCR (left Center Right) speaker array in my playroom/TV room. Equipment in the securable cabinet under the wall mounted TV. Rear channels mounted in the same manner (out of view). Subwoofer on floor in left front corner. I rewired this system number of years ago placing all the wire runs in the wall and for the surround back channels into the ceiling. Watching movies and TV on this set up is great fun but listening to music in anything more than the most casual manner is disappointing. My wife and kids love this system.

 

Thank you for all the input and links Robin L.

I am not interested, at least at this point, in surround sound. at this point I'm just thinking the two towers for use with everything. I am thinking of going either with an integrated amp or spending a bit less on an AVR and getting a phono preamp to add later. The Onkyo looks like it might fit my needs.

Thanks again.

 

Thanks Ntotrar.

Your room decor looks familiar to my own. Sounds like you have two different systems and rooms. That must be awesome! Unfortunately, I have one large room (17'w x 25'l x 11' h) that I am trying to accomplish everything with one set up. I am torn between the integrated amp and AVR. However, your statement above about 'casual listening' really has me thinking about the right speakers now. Most of our listening in casual in nature, save the hour following the kids going to sleep when I can really sit and listen to something. Going back out early next week to give a few speakers a listen again.

Thanks again for the recommendations.

 

Thanks robertzonmie.

Sounds like another vote towards the integrated pre-amp.

 

Yeah, checkout Rega.

 

Im embarrassed to give a number to the complete systems in the house. Difficult to build a system that does everything.

 

I have a dedicated two channel set up and that's all I know about!

If I were to start again I would go the computer audio way: buy CDs, copy to PC, store on a hard drive, connect HD to a dedicated audio PC, use JRiver software to manage the music and play. It would play through a separate DAC, amp and speakers. JRiver has some equalising capabilities to help with getting good sound in your room. The amp could be an integrated amp or AVR.

Using this way, you can source all sorts of media types including downloads.