In praise of (nearly extinct) big curved-screen 70mm theatres

Discussion in 'Visual Arts' started by MLutthans, Oct 13, 2010.

  1. greelywinger

    greelywinger Osmondia

    Location:
    Dayton, Ohio USA
    As a kid I regularly went to The Dabel Cinema in Dayton, Ohio.
    Not sure of ant specifications, but it was know as Dayton's only
    surviving wide screen theater for many years.
    Sadly it was torn down a few years back.
    Wish I could find an image on the net.

    http://cinematreasures.org/theater/10072/

    Darryl
     
  2. mr_mjb1960

    mr_mjb1960 I'm a Tarrytowner 'Til I die!

    Not to mention Sensurround,ESPECIALLY When it shook the theater (As in "Earthquake!")..it litrally made one shake so badly (In White Plains,N.Y.,in 1986) that they had to close it,cause it destroyed it! THAT'S how powerful this was!:righton:
     
  3. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    I've got a shot of the Dabel that I pulled off the interwebs years ago. I'll try to dig it up for you.

    Interesting bit of big-theatre trivia:

    The entire Cinerama revival can really be traced back to one man: John Harvey of Dayton, Ohio. John used to be a projectionist at the Dabel when it was Dayton's Cinerama venue. He was so enamored of the process that he installed a full Cinerama installation IN HIS HOUSE!!!!! This involved the removal of the ceiling between floors one and two, and his wife left him over it. He was devoted....to Cinerama. Anyway, some of the prints that he resurrected were (at least partially) from the Dabel, and the sign that he installed on Dayton's New Neon Cinema -- when it was running his prints of Cinerama stuff -- was the original Cinerama sign from the Dabel.

    None of the shows in LA or Seattle that have happened over the last decade would have ever occurred had John not done those initial shows back in Dayton.

    Matt
     
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  4. greelywinger

    greelywinger Osmondia

    Location:
    Dayton, Ohio USA
    Gonna try some pics.

    The first pic is from 1948

    [​IMG]

    The next photo is from 1987

    [​IMG]

    Darryl
     
  5. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    ....but technically Sensurround was not a "big screen" experience. Heck, Sensurround was used in the Everett Mall 1-2-3, a dumpy and dinky General Cinemas joint in my hometown...and that theatre didn't even have the ability to run stereo! Sensurround was cool in its own way, though.

    I own two of the three original Sensurround amps from the Cinerama Dome in Los Angeles. See here for pics.

    Matt
     
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  6. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    Thanks, greelywinger. You beat me to the same picture I have somewhere! :righton:

    See how the "Dabel Cinema" sign is all squiggly-shaped? That's the old frame for the Cinerama logo back when the Dabel ran Cinerama, and that's the sign that moved over to the New Neon in the 1990s.
    [​IMG]
     

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  7. charlie W

    charlie W EMA Level 10

    Location:
    Area Code 254
    I don't want to threadjack because I have enjoyed it so much because I've never seen a Cinerama movie and only one(non-IMAX) 70mm presentation(Superman) and it wasn't that impressive. A few weeks ago, I was watching "Midway" on TCM and just by coincidence, it was playing through my A/V system. And by further coincidence, I had left the Dolby Pro Logic on even though the movie was clearly mono. However, during heavy battle scenes, the room would literally vibrate even at moderate volume. I couldn't figure it why until I saw the end credits "Filmed in Sensurround", which was triggering the 5.1 active sub.
     
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  8. greelywinger

    greelywinger Osmondia

    Location:
    Dayton, Ohio USA
    Wish I could find some pics from inside the theater.

    Darryl
     
  9. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    Yes, it was 70mm both before and after triplexing.

    [​IMG]

    Matt
     

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  10. Clark Kauffman

    Clark Kauffman Forum Resident

    The only "real" movie-going experience I ever had was seeing a restored 70mm print of "My Fair Lady" on an enormous screen at one of downtown Chicago's last remaining movie houses, back in 1994. It was magical. I had to take a day off work, drive three hours there and three hours back, but it was worth it. Never seen anything like it, before or since.

    Back in 2001 or so, I drove by the fabled Indian Hills theater in Omaha when it was being torn down to make room for a parking lot owned by a "nonprofit" hospital. It was incredibly sad. Even though Indian Hills was in Omaha (!) it was known around the world as one of the premiere movie houses in all of America. When it was first threatened by the wrecking ball, some major Hollywood celebrities -- Kirk Douglas, Charlton Heston, Janet Leigh, Robert Wise, Richard D. Zanuck and others -- protested, but the plans for demolition proceeded as scheduled.

    Here's some history of the place, courtesy of Wikipedia:

    The Indian Hills Theater in Omaha, Nebraska, USA, was built in 1962 as a movie theater showcasing films in the Cinerama wide-screen format. The theater's screen was the largest of its type in the United States.

    The Indian Hills Theater was the movie palace of its day. As the final "Super-Cinerama" theater, it contained refinements to the design which resulted in the finest Cinerama theater ever built. The curved screen was the largest ever installed in a Cinerama theater.

    The theater was built for Swanson Enterprises of Omaha at a cost of one million dollars by A. Borchman Sons Company. It was designed by architect Richard L. Crowther of Denver, Colorado, a Fellow of the American Institute of Architects. Mr. Crowther designed each element of the theater to enhance the Cinerama experience. The circular design took advantage of the discovery that patrons, if left to their own devices, would seat themselves in an oval pattern. The exterior's circular shape served as a constant reminder to passing motorists that this was a Cinerama theater. The design included a cylindrical shape and a flat roof.

    The base of the building exterior consisted of black Roman brick. The upper portion of the exterior was clad in insulated Monopanels which were a burnt-orange color called Swedish red. The interior auditorium was circular in shape and seated 810, with 662 on the main floor and 148 on the balcony.

    A motor-driven floor-to-ceiling curtain would open to reveal the curved screen, which was 35 feet, 3 inches (10.75 m) high and 110 feet (34 m) wide, with a 146-degree curve - just short of a half-circle.

    The screen extended from the floor to the ceiling and was the largest indoor movie screen in the United States. The screen consisted of 2500 strips of one-inch, perforated tape called louvers. There were twenty speakers in five mountings evenly spaced behind the screen, four speakers on each side of the theater and eight speakers in the rear. The speakers were "Voice of the Theater" models manufactured by Altec Lansing Co.

    On each side of the auditorium there was a circular lounge for service of refreshments which contained curved padded benches. Above the lounge areas were curved floor-to-ceiling architectural baffles with a circular motif. Behind each baffle was a large cylindrical speaker cluster with a circular light fixture attached to the bottom. The three projection booths required for Cinerama were located on the main floor of the auditorium with one in the center and the other two evenly spaced between the center and side walls.

    In 1962, a night at the Indian Hills Theater was like a night at the opera. A patron would call in advance to purchase reserved seats. Upon arrival at the theater the patrons would drive up to the entrance where a doorman would open the door to the lobby. Reserved seat tickets would be picked up at the box office and a tuxedo-attired usher would walk the patron into the auditorium and point out the seats with a flashlight. The concession stands offered only an orange drink in a specially shaped container and imported candies. Refreshments were not permitted in the seats.

    Patrons entering the theater would hear the film musical score from the speakers behind the screen. As the lights dimmed the curtains would reveal the massive curved screen. The projected image would nearly fill the viewer's field of vision. The multi-channel sound, combined with the screen image, created a three-dimensional experience. At intermission, patrons would gather at the side lounges of the auditorium, the lobby, or the outdoor patio.


    And now it's a little-used parking lot.

    What really makes this sad is that Indian Hills was half-way through a million-dollar renovation when ownership changed hands ... and the new owners decided the community would be better served by a flat expanse of concrete rather than the preservation of one of America's most renowned theaters.

    What I wouldn't give to see "How The West Was Won" or "North By Northwest" in that theater...
     

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  11. Clark Kauffman

    Clark Kauffman Forum Resident

    Yeah, that was where I saw the restored print of "My Fair Lady." What a great theater. Not the least bit ornate, but still a beautiful place with an enormous screen.
     
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  12. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    Below is a 3-image panoramic shot I took in the Indian Hills on its last day of operation.
    [​IMG]
    ("Cinerama in Cinerama" so to speak.) As some here know, I was heavily involved in the attempt to resurrect the theatre, which was the most gorgeous theatre I had ever seen (in "big screen" terms). When the bulldozers hit, I literally sat and cried; it just about killed me.

    By the way, in the photo, the screen is open for a flat 1.85 presentation, which only used something like half of the screen. When the screen was fully exposed for Cinerama, it was 35' x 105', the largest indoor Cinerama screen ever built.
     

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  13. benjaminhuf

    benjaminhuf Forum Resident

    Beautiful.

    And what a sad story. Truly. How many architectural treasures have been lost in this way...
     
  14. greelywinger

    greelywinger Osmondia

    Location:
    Dayton, Ohio USA
    Stumbled upon this in a google search.
    http://www.spiritsgifts.com/wordpress/?p=10
    It talks about memories of Dayton Ohio.
    It includes several other related links.
    Should be some interesting reading for me tonight.

    Darryl
     
  15. gd0

    gd0 Looney Tunes and Merrie Melodies

    Location:
    Golden Gate
    That really was a special place. And time. Not that I could verify, but it seemed well-attended in its heyday.

    Beyond the big-screen presentation, that place taught me an early lesson in how to create good audio: carpeted floors. The sound in the IH was incredible, unlike any other movie theatre in town.

    Of course, that particular quest for quality ran up against public preference. When the IH first opened, the carpeted floor prompted an unpopular policy: no popcorn or soft drinks. Only hard candy was offered at the "snack bar."

    When attendance declined some years later, they had no choice but to reintroduce traditional snacks, and predictably, the animals immediately proceeded to trash the floor of the beautiful theatre. (Disgruntled parent: "this is why we can't have nice things")

    The beginning of the end.
     
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  16. Vidiot

    Vidiot Now in 4K HDR!

    Location:
    Hollywood, USA
    Hard to argue with that. Every mixing stage I've ever been to in LA (WB, Sony, Fox, Todd-AO) all have carpeted floors.

    I think there are a lot acoustical compromises they can do to tame reflections and standing waves and so on in theaters, even with a hard floor for patrons. The seats themselves absorb quite a bit of sound energy, so that helps. The ceiling is a major factor, too.

    As an example: the Ceramic Dome was one of the worst-sounding theaters in LA for many years, with all kinds of weird reflections and delays. They tried to get it THX certified a half-dozen times but could never pass. There's been all kinds of remodeling attempts done, and it's better now than it used to be, but there's only so much they can do, and the city won't let them put enough acoustical tiles on the ceiling for fear that they'll fall off during an earthquake and hit people on the head.
     
  17. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    THX has become such a, um....prostitute over the years. Several years ago, they insisted that the Cinerama in Seattle remove the draperies over the auditorium entrances and install doors -- which of course now go "clunk" throughout the shows -- and I can get an LCD TV that's "THX Certified," but a theatre whose audio system has more power than just about any in the country can't get the little THX badge.
    [​IMG]
     

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  18. mr_mjb1960

    mr_mjb1960 I'm a Tarrytowner 'Til I die!

    Wasn't The Radio City Music Hall In New York City equipped with a 70mm Screen when it showed movies along with its Stage Presentations? I thought I'd saw "1776" in 70mm when I was young,as well as many others..And,that MIGHTY PIPE ORGAN! WOW! Shook the house everytime it played! I miss that now,real bad...:shake:
     
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  19. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    Yes -- see here: http://www.fromscripttodvd.com/70mm_in_new_york_radio_city_hall.htm

    Matt
     
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  20. sparkydog

    sparkydog Forum Resident

    Location:
    Kentucky
    Just to keep this thread afloat, I will add that I am going to see Daniel Tosh at The Louisville Palace tonight! Yay!!
     
  21. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    Roughly two people may find this interesting, but what the heck!

    Regarding the Cinerama Dome in Hollywood, 10 years ago, Martin Hart of widescreenmuseum.com and I got permission to go in there and take some accurate measurements of the current screen and of what would have been the original screen intended for true Cinerama in 1963. The current screen measurements are/were very accurate. We had to estimate the original, but I'll bet it's accurate within a foot one way or the other.

    As far as screen height goes, we used one of those wireless measuring devices to get a vertical reading, and got 34'3" from the floor just in front of the curtain to the light track above the curtains. The published height is 32', and these measurements would line up pretty well with that number.

    For width and curvature, see the drawings I've inserted below, which really reinforce how DEEPLY curved that screen is. It's far from the typical "curved screen" at the multiplex!

    The second picture is the original screen measurements superimposed atop the current, smaller screen.
    [​IMG] [​IMG]
     

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  22. sparkydog

    sparkydog Forum Resident

    Location:
    Kentucky
    Maybe 3 people found it interesting... including moi.
     
  23. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    In October of last year, I took a bunch of shots of the interior of the Uptown Theatre in Washington, D.C., which was a Cinerama facility, and which still has its deeply curved screen in place. My buddy Tom March in Calgary took three of my shots and spliced them together, and quite nicely so.
    [​IMG]
    Note that when true Cinerama ran there until 1963 or so, the screen would have had zero black masking, and would have gone all the way to the edge of the red curtains, which actually would slide behind the black ones, entirely out of view.

    Sadly, the theatre removed all of its film equipment recently, and is now digital-only.

    Matt
     

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  24. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    Virtually nobody will care about this but....

    The Noralco AA-II, aka DP70, is the behemoth projector created for running 30fps 70mm Todd-AO back in 1954, and I think the AA-II was in production until about 1969. One machine, fully assembled weighs 1200 pounds! (I know...I have two of them, and I dread the day I have to move them.) Anyway, I was at one of my storage units on Sunday and came across these old original-equipment Norelco mag playback heads and thought the nerds here might like to see these things. They are essentially 10-track heads. The 6 outer tracks were used for 70mm prints, and the inner heads were used for 4-track mag 35mm. By having all 10 tracks for both formats in the same housing, it meant easier changover between formats. Of course, it also meant that if your 70mm heads were shot but your 35mm were still in good shape, you got to replace the whole unit! Ah, well, it's just money.

    You can read about the projectors here. (Mine are listed on this page, toward the bottom [2414 and 2438].)

    Here's a shot I took of one in service at the Cinerama in Seattle, 1999, plus the aforementioned audio heads.
    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
     

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  25. harmonica98

    harmonica98 Senior Member

    Location:
    London, UK
    Matt - I for one always enjoy your posts on this subject. Keep them coming!

    Tom
     

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