In praise of Tone Controls

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by JoeSmo, Apr 4, 2018.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Doctor Fine

    Doctor Fine "So Hip It Would Blister Your Brain"

    It was a JOKE.
    Oh, nevermind.
    I sort of knew that any posting that expressed an OPPOSING opinion on the subject of why tone controls are a great idea would be ATTACKED by folks that don't have mastering grade systems.
    A mastering grade system does not need OR want to be jazzed up.
    If you don't have one that is fine with me.
    But this is a site that is supposedly SERIOUS and I am very serious about what works and what doesn't---and WHY.
    There is a reason to use tone controls on a less than stellar system.
    But on a mastering grade setup absolutely NO.
    You guys want to live in a feedback loop where the only opinion you ever hear is your own---that is apparently typical nowadays.
    I am so sorry I tried to give the opposing view and do it with a little HUMOR.
    But I did have some hope that on this site everyone might allow for a differing opinion.
    Especially if it was done with a touch of humor.
    My bad.
     
    Jeff57 likes this.
  2. weavzy

    weavzy Needle Dropper

    Not all recordings are created equal...thus, tone controls, please.
     
    muletrane, AidanB, Manimal and 6 others like this.
  3. Gibsonian

    Gibsonian Forum Resident

    Location:
    Iowa, USA
    Well I can understand how some could be put off by the "Your system sucks if you use tone controls" mantra. There is no law of acoustics or empirical data that would support this kind of statement.

    Recordings must not all be mastered by pro's based on the wide variety of quality that I have within my music collection.

    I can state that there are many good recordings that have been mastered well that exist and on those, if your system is well put together, the largest percentage of these recordings simply don't require any eq and do sound very very good.
     
  4. Doctor Fine

    Doctor Fine "So Hip It Would Blister Your Brain"

    Actually all recordings ARE created equal.
    It is called "mastering" and it is done so that the tonal balance is in line with ALL the other product put out since folks started paying for home music reproduction.
    There are STANDARDS in this industry.
    Only lately with the advent of "home studios" and Rap and garbage CD transfers that mangle the hard work of the original engineers---do you have "out of whack" recordings being foisted on the public.
    My system plays every single professionally recorded product back inside a ballpark where I get the differences in microphones and recording decks and rooms---but the SOUND is neutral.
    If you don't know that is possible that is not my fault.
    I am a pro.
    Been in the business for 50 years.
    Have watched it become better---and worse---depending on what the labels put out and what the fashion of the day has become.
    But in general 99% of professional "product" is fairly even handed and sounds fine without jazzing it up.
    Nowadays with earbuds and the general decline in the state of pop music taste I will grant you things have changed in some cases for the WORSE.
    I have a CD put out by James Taylor that was mixed on Yamaha O2r digital console with unlimited bass extension and the damn thing blew out all my subs one night! (Gaia!).
    BAD mastering!
    But over at MY house I don't listen to garbage.
    There is simply waaaay too much quality stuff out there to waste my life listening to less than professional recording.
    Sorry but this subject is real important to me.
    Ignore me if it is not important to YOU.
     
    Nick Brook and Jeff57 like this.
  5. allied333

    allied333 Audiophile

    Location:
    nowhere
    [QUOTE="Until I began spending time on this Forum I was unaware of the stance many have against tone controls. QUOTE]

    Tone controls do not alter or color the amplifier if high quality paper in oil (PIO) capacitors are used. And, vintage amplifiers do not use PIO capacitors. Tone controls allows tuning the amplifier response to the speakers. An amplifier with quality tone controls are IMO superior. Shameful new tube amps do not offer tone controls. And, an after market equalizer in line is not good for best audio quality- too much circuitry and extra capacitance is involved.
     
    muletrane, SandAndGlass and JoeSmo like this.
  6. toddfan

    toddfan Forum Resident

    Location:
    Overland Park, KS
    I couldn't bring myself to purchase a new Stereo Amplifier that did not have tone controls...although I rarely use them, I want them when I want them.
     
  7. Gibsonian

    Gibsonian Forum Resident

    Location:
    Iowa, USA
    Best summation I've encountered!
     
    SandAndGlass and JoeSmo like this.
  8. JakeMcD

    JakeMcD Forum Resident

    Location:
    So Central FL
    I have seven working and currently set up amplifiers that are in regular use. Five have tone controls and two do not. The two without tone controls are the superior sounding amps.

    Now for the full story. The two amps without tone controls are of better constuction, are newer, have superior parts and have uncomplicated circuitry.

    My contribution to this is not necessarily that having no tone controls is better than having tone controls. Is is my observation however that amps with tone controls set to flat sound substantially thinner than amps without tone controls. One may state that the settings are theoretically equal, but the performance may very well differ.

    Put differently, don’t judge an amp by its tone controls.
     
    Nick Brook, muletrane, Dave and 2 others like this.
  9. G B Kuipers

    G B Kuipers Forum Resident

    Location:
    Netherlands
    I do understand the craving for tone controls, for sometimes there is a bit of a miss-match between the source material and the system/room. That's the real world.

    However, from using EQ on a daily basis as an audio engineer, I cannot deny the truth that every EQ I have ever used (even mastering grade hardware units) screws up the phase relations in the music. By this effect, using EQ always results in a certain degree of smearing of the transients and loss of spacial information. Simply put: an objective degradation of sound quality, even if the resulting timbre is more pleasing to the ear initially. This is the reason why today's audiophile designers feel that tone controls are out of the question on high end amps.

    My own preference would be to have some tone controls (i.e., a high quality EQ section)... AND a hard bypass option. The old "source direct" concept found on many receivers from the past.
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2018
    jhenry, punkmusick and JoeSmo like this.
  10. krisbee

    krisbee Forum Resident

    If that were true, we wouldnt know the names of mastering engineers here, and there would be no difference between them. But the fact is everyone has a signature sound and they all vary. Just like or equipment, rooms, and dedication to futz with our equipment. When I was younger, I’d futz with my equipment all the time, but now that Im married and older, not nearly as much. (Note: double entendre).
     
    wrappedinsky, Bill Why Man and jhenry like this.
  11. Chris Schoen

    Chris Schoen Rock 'n Roll !!!

    Location:
    Maryland, U.S.A.
    I try to get the best mastering
    More importantly, you have them when you need them.
     
    Linger63, toddfan and JoeSmo like this.
  12. marcb

    marcb Senior Member

    Location:
    DC area
    Reading Shakespeare doesn’t mean you understand it.

    Having tone controls doesn’t mean you know how to use them.
     
  13. Stone Turntable

    Stone Turntable Independent Head

    Location:
    New Mexico USA
    I have zero problems with people who use and praise tone controls, although I've never once felt that I've needed them once I started using gear that I love.

    My only question to tone control advocates is about the design and quality of most tone controls. I seem to recall Steve Hoffman criticizing how tone controls are generally implemented and their effects on sound quality, and I also recall that he strongly recommended getting a high-quality equalizer if you want to fiddle with EQ.
     
    sushimaster and JoeSmo like this.
  14. Doctor Fine

    Doctor Fine "So Hip It Would Blister Your Brain"



    Paul has MY opinion down pat so I'll let him talk to you.
     
  15. everton

    everton Forum Resident

    Location:
    Canada
    That's all it matters.
     
    JoeSmo likes this.
  16. Thorensman

    Thorensman Forum Resident

    My old Leak Varislope had tone controls and they worked on the tape out as well . I made superb cassette recordings
    Using tone controls. Friends would say how good my tapes were. I never let on.
     
    Nick Brook, SandAndGlass and JoeSmo like this.
  17. Sugar Man

    Sugar Man Forum Resident

    It should, but not to the forum members who like to tell you THEY know better*.

    * Insert any topic they are overly attached to.
     
    Eigenvector and JoeSmo like this.
  18. fogalu

    fogalu There is only one Beethoven

    Location:
    Killarney, Ireland
    You mean: 2db or not 2db?
     
    mp29k, brock, RobCos02330 and 19 others like this.
  19. marcb

    marcb Senior Member

    Location:
    DC area
    So all albums should be just released flat and all the amateurs with their amateur eqpt can make their amatuer EQ adjustments?

    Every system I’ve ever heard where someone has made their own custom EQ adjustments sounds anywhere from worse than flat to absolute crap to me.

    I’ll bet professionals die laughing at the EQ adjustments made by 95% of home users.
     
    Dave likes this.
  20. marcb

    marcb Senior Member

    Location:
    DC area
    You just won the internet today.
     
    LitHum05 and fogalu like this.
  21. Sugar Man

    Sugar Man Forum Resident

    The OP stated he bought an amp with tone controls, made a couple of adjustments, and his system sounded better than ever. Bravo! Why does this piss off certain people so much?
     
    muletrane, Old Rusty, sturgus and 6 others like this.
  22. JoeSmo

    JoeSmo SL1200 lover.... Thread Starter

    Location:
    Maidstone
    ....nope. They’ll understand our listening rooms sound nothing like their monitoring kit and studio sound treatment.
     
  23. Doctor Fine

    Doctor Fine "So Hip It Would Blister Your Brain"

    My best friend recorded for Wally Heider on the West Coast during the 60s.
    When he heard my system play back his recordings using EQ he got REALLY PISSED.
    "If I had wanted Steve Stills to drown out the background vocals I would have RECORDED Steve LOUDER."
    I "fixed" my speaker to room setup until it was clean and suddenly I could HEAR the background vocals.
    NOW I KNOW what he was raving about.
     
    Raylinds likes this.
  24. Mike from NYC

    Mike from NYC Senior Member

    Location:
    Surprise, AZ
    As I moved up the audio food chain I found I needed tone controls less and less. My NAD M3 had tone controls but I never used them.

    The only thing I wanted was more bass because some records are deficient in that area so . . . I bought a sub so I can vary how much bass I want and many times it is turned off as my speakers have plenty of bass.
     
    JoeSmo likes this.
  25. marcb

    marcb Senior Member

    Location:
    DC area
    It doesn’t.

    Why does it piss you off when I point out most tone controls are just glorified loudness buttons too cheaply constructed and limited to do anything more than substitute one problem for another - even in the hands of someone who knows what they’re doing?
     
    Dave likes this.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page

molar-endocrine