In praise of Tone Controls

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by JoeSmo, Apr 4, 2018.

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  1. The Pinhead

    The Pinhead KING OF BOOM AND SIZZLE IN HELL



    My man !!:cheers::cheers:
     
  2. The Pinhead

    The Pinhead KING OF BOOM AND SIZZLE IN HELL

    You have more than one knob to fiddle with ?! Is it big ?:D


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    [​IMG]
     
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  3. Archguy

    Archguy Forum Resident

    Location:
    Richmond VA
    Recently I heard yet one more time someone saying "I never touch the tone controls because I like to hear the music the way the artist intended" with the customary air of smug self-satisfaction. I had to forcibly restrain myself from throttling his neck. Fortunately I was indeed able to restrain myself, and I say fortunately because he's a client.
     
  4. Archguy

    Archguy Forum Resident

    Location:
    Richmond VA
    I'm surprised you could read the review and not learn that it's a preamp not a receiver.
     
  5. The FRiNgE

    The FRiNgE Forum Resident

    In regard to the op's reason for using tone controls, the listener's hearing may have declined in sensitivity. Sometimes higher frequencies can be heard, but just at a lower sensitivity. In my specific case, I can still hear 14.5 kHz, but my sensitivity well below 12 kHz ... however I have not felt the need to boost or compensate for that.

    Bass and Treble controls in a circuit are referred to as a "tone stack". Tone stacks are always parasitic. Only the max settings realize full gain. The central or "flat" settings rob the preamp of gain. An extra gain stage compensates for the losses, and with that extra stage always just that tiny bit more harmonic distortion and tiny bit of added noise floor. Of course the required capacitors to achieve bass and treble control further add coloration to the signal, although well designed control circuits may be very transparent. So to the purist, tone controls remove the preamp further away from a "straight wire" with gain.

    By the way, some of the most coveted guitar amps are class A, and featuring only a passive tone control. A classic tone control has no "boost", so the "full" setting will be full gain. (no-load tone most ideal) Amps with the simplest of circuits such as the Fender "Champ" and vintage Supro amps are known for their touch sensitivity and beautiful tone.

    back to hifi...

    Given the technical and real disadvantages of a tone stack, I prefer tone controls. For example a recording too "midrangy" can be "fixed" by scooping the midrange... by simply boosting the bass and treble as needed. (desirable to some listeners) Likewise a recording too "scooped" (ie: Telarc CD's, Mofi recordings, particularly Elton John and many, many other pop artists/titles/record labels) will benefit from slightly cutting the bass and treble, and this can help open up the music, especially at concert levels. One benefit I have come to appreciate is the "uptilt" or "downtilt" setting. A warm recording may not always sound just right by cutting only the bass. It may be better to add a little treble, or linear "uptilt". This setting doesn't add any harmonic distortion, and can be a wonderful "fix" for darker mixes. Likewise, a bright recording can benefit most by a downtilted setting, a slight boost in bass, and cut the treble by a few dB. When doing comparisons, the louder setting tends to sound better, even if it isn't. (human subjectivity that can fool the listener to prefer the louder sound, such as bass and treble "boost") So, we need to observe unity gain, easily done by adjustment of the volume control. This is especially true when making bass and treble cuts (results in gain reduction).. turn up the volume slightly to properly evaluate the tonal change.
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2018
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  6. AvFan

    AvFan Forum Resident

    I have been without or didn't use controls for several years but I found some vinyl records I was buying, particularly some from in the 1960s, were bass-shy. So I added a subwoofer to my full range speakers and essentially use the sub as a bass tone control. It works but is a PITA to have to lean over the sub to adjust the bass for challenged records.

    So I'm about to own a DB Systems DB-5 tone control unit I will add to my DB Systems DB-1B preamp. The DB-5 has bass and treble adjustments in three ranges each plus two bass boost options and the frequency curves for each are included in the documentation. I also have the frequency curves (albeit not in room) for my speakers so I will have a very good idea what any tone adjustments will do before room interaction. My system sounds good to me now except for some bass issues. If the tone control, and in particular the bass boost options, doesn't provide the effect I'm looking for I have a miniDSP in the wings and will adjust the frequency output of my system with it. I like the options of tone controls but IMO they must be used with an understanding of the changes they make.
     
  7. DigMyGroove

    DigMyGroove Forum Resident

    I bought the Loki here in the Classifieds about a month ago, I LOVE IT! I use an Arcam Solo Music as my pre-amp, it has digital tone controls as well as a kind of loudness bass boost option. I found I was never satisfied with the sound and was constantly fiddling. The Loki has stopped the fiddling, I have a general setting that works for most recordings and can quickly tweak the outliers. It's existence has also opened up the possibility of other gear down the line that looks appealing until I discover there's no tone control, something I'm unwilling to do without. This little device came along at just the right time for me, so glad I picked it up!
     
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  8. Ghostworld

    Ghostworld Senior Member

    Location:
    US
    Tone controls can mean new life for nonconforming speakers.
     
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  9. The FRiNgE

    The FRiNgE Forum Resident

    :laugh: Are Tone controls for the non-conformist audiophile too?
     
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  10. Ghostworld

    Ghostworld Senior Member

    Location:
    US

    I don't know who are the rebels here. Did the first preamps have tone controls. Do studio preamps have tone controls? I dunno.
     
  11. Sneaky Pete

    Sneaky Pete Flat the 5 and That’s No Jive

    Location:
    NYC USA
    I think tone controls are like salt. They both should be used very sparingly.

    When you first give up salt everything seems rather bland, but over time you realize you were missing the taste of the real food. Same thing with tone controls they train your ears to like the sound of colorations. Giving them up you start to really hear the music and the sound of the actual recording (warts and all). I’ve had a system with no tone controls for decades now and I don’t miss them.

    I have tone controls and preset EQs in my car and I never use them. When I’m tempted and start to play around with them I always end up reverting to the “flat” settings.

    Often the really bad recordings could benefit most from subtracting some of the excessive EQ choices already made by producers and engineers. :)
     
  12. fezco

    fezco Forum Resident

    Location:
    Pasadena
    I'm tri-Amping my GNP Valkyries with 6 individual, and adjustable Bryston channels. Is that like a tone control? I can adjust, bass, mid-bass and (treble midrange).
     
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  13. SandAndGlass

    SandAndGlass Twilight Forum Resident

    I would say that it is, and a truly a much better way to do it, than tone controls or graphic EQ.

    I do something similar. I have a decent size room and I prefer an immersive sound experience. I have four separate systems in the room, that I can play individually or all together. Today, I have them all on, playing together from the same source. Two are SS and two systems are tubes.

    Because different amps and different speakers have different sound signatures I can control the overall tone by adjusting what systems are playing and controlling the volume on the different systems, as my tone controls.

    I have some super-tweeters on a pair of two way speakers that I can take in and out of the system and I have hats on them for decoration and I can take the high end off a bit by lowering one or both of the hats on them.

    I have a separate processor that I use to decode the surround sound on the HT surround sound, so that I can use my regular speakers and amps for both HT and stereo.

    I have a commercial, passive horn loaded sub that is run off the LFE channel of the processor, driving a Crown XTi-2000 in bridged mono mode, which will provide up to 1,600-Watts to the sub.

    When I use the sub with stereo, I take the preamp outputs and bring them into an unused input of the processor and use the processor's bass management feature to send program material that is at or below 40-Hz. to out the LFE channel.

    I can then take the sub out of the system by muting the sub or control the subs overall volume in comparison to the main system, by adjusting the volume on the processor's remote control.

    I keep the volume controls close by where I sit on the tan sofa.

    [​IMG]

    From where I sit, you have figured out the tone control thing nicely and without fussing around with EQ's.
     
  14. JoeSmo

    JoeSmo SL1200 lover.... Thread Starter

    Location:
    Maidstone
    A dear friend of mine was fussing and clucking over the sound of his sonneteer Orton into Dynaudios and about to spend a fortune on interconnects, new speakers too. He has an acoustically bare listening room with hard wood floors, sparsely furnished. I suggested he give the Schiit Loki a whirl, which he duly purchased from the States. At the money, a no brainer.

    He brought me round for a demo and was watching with amusement my confusion, it sounded odd and I thought I’ve wasted his money here. Then he switched the Loki off ‘flat’ and the sound, with tone engaged, was compellingly better. I was shocked at how much improved his system sounded and of course he’d obeyed the laws of a demo; before and after presentation.

    He confirmed it had taken him an hour of twiddling to get the sound right and once set hadn’t touched it since. I found the sound exactly to my tastes too and mention it as, interestingly, we are both the same age; mid 50’s. So IMO there must be a correlation as to how our hearing has changed/degraded with advancing years.
    My friend had pondered expensive room correction software too. As good as it may be at adjusting the sound for the listening room it can’t cater for an individuals hearing.
     
  15. AvFan

    AvFan Forum Resident

    I added the DB-5 to my system today and its 40Hz shelving bass boost (my speakers -3dB point is 35Hz) has eliminated the need for the subwoofer I'd added. The DB-5 has three ranges for both bass and treble and a couple dB reduction in treble using the HI setting eliminated some minor digital glare of my CDs and high resolution audio. I'm not using any tone control, except the 40Hz boost with vinyl. The adjustments I made are subtle but they had a positive effect on the sound of my system for a variety of sources. So I'm in the tone control camp so long as it is targeted and subtly applied.
     
  16. Magic

    Magic I'm just this guy, ya know?

    Location:
    Franklin TN
    So...I had a chance to play around some more with the Loki yesterday and today. Listened to Pink Floyd "Meddle" whole album, Alan Parsons "Tales of Mystery and Imagination Edgar Allen Poe" (original pressing; second side "Fall of the House of Usher is incredible), Gordon Lightfoot "Don Quixote", Charlie "No Second Chance", Jethero Tull "Passion Play" and Vangelis "Blade Runner". Today...Triumvirat "Spartacus" and Gordon Lightfoot "Sunday Concert". All I can say is everything sounds great. Without putting to fine a point on it the Loki has literally transformed the sound of my vinyl. It's hard not to be amazed at what it has done for being so inexpensive. Maybe that's faulty logic but at least for now I can stop chasing my tail trying to restore high fidelity to my vinyl.
     
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  17. punkmusick

    punkmusick Amateur drummer

    Location:
    Brazil
    A hair of treble made me happier this morning. I like the idea of the Marantz PM8005 with Mid control, besides Bass and Treble, and the Loudness in the Yamaha AS801.
     
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  18. Manimal

    Manimal Forum Resident

    Location:
    Southern US
    I have two treble and two bass tone controls. Ha!
     
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  19. rp600m

    rp600m Well-Known Member

    Location:
    oxford,ga
    Tone controls will compress that magical halographic 3D imaging of good recordings.

    My system sounds best when I use the LOUDNESS button...screw halographic 3D imaging...
     
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  20. Solitaire1

    Solitaire1 Carpenters Fan

    Do they go up to 11?
     
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  21. rp600m

    rp600m Well-Known Member

    Location:
    oxford,ga
    My system:
    Pre Amp: Denon DRA-37 Stereo receiver used as pre amp (love the loudness button and FM radio)
    Tube Amp: Prima Luna Prologue Four with stock tubes
    Speakers: Klipsch RP600M bookshelf
    CD Player: Sony Carousel SACD player with SCHIIT Modi 3 DAC

    Listen to what Steve says about the Klipsch speakers below:
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2019
  22. rp600m

    rp600m Well-Known Member

    Location:
    oxford,ga
    One more video
     
  23. Mmmark

    Mmmark Forum Resident

    Location:
    Canada
    WTF is a ''mastering grade playback installer'?!?
     
  24. Tim 2

    Tim 2 MORE MUSIC PLEASE

    Location:
    Alberta Canada
    In the 70's and 80's I used to think tone controls were the the holy grail of audio, but as my systems improved and my set-up skills sharpened I found I was no longer using those tone controls, the systems sounded better without or there was a better way to deal with a problem, so when on the upgrade trail I no longer looked for equipment with controls.
    I haven't seen tone controls on quality equipment many in years.
     
  25. DaleClark

    DaleClark Forum Resident

    Location:
    Columbus, Ohio
    Tone controls and EQ's will make a huge comeback due to aging baby boomers and generation x'ers. Fine tuning the system to "one's hearing" will be a major selling point of such devices.

    Hearing assistance devices will make leaps over the next 10 years or so in both size and sound quality as well. Especially with phone apps where you can fine tune your device thru DSP, Eq's. Here's an example VoiceBud VB20 Hearing Aid With Two-Microphone NoiseBlocker Technology, App Control

    BOSE is working on such devices as well foreseeing a large market potential.
     
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