In Search of Warmth...

I am looking to inject some warmth to my currently neutral/bright (sometimes fatiguing) sounding system, I am looking for advice on the best approach. While my listening room is not ideal (12 X 20 3rd car portion of a three car garage, system on backwall with speakers facing the door), it's what I have to work with. I don't really crank up the volume, so SPL is not a priority. I'm trying to aim for a rich, full sound. Music tastes are metal, classic rock, hip-hop.

Current Rig:
- Main Components: Outlaw RR2150 Integrated Amp. PLX-1000 turntable with 2m Bronze (100 hours broken-in) and Nagoaka MP-110 (30 hours broken-in) cartridges on tap, KAB dampener, and a deerskin mat on top of the stock. Turntable runs into phono-in on the outlaw. Pioneer Elite dv-45a SACD/CD/DVD-A player.
- Speakers: Paradigm Studio 20 v.3 on proper speaker stands, Paradigm PDR 8 v.3 sub
- Interconnects/Wires: QED Performance Audio 40 interconnects, AudioQuest Rocket 33 speaker wires.

What I have tried: adjusting toe in on the speakers, VTA adjustments on the turntable, different turntable mats, moving the subwoofer around, tone control adjustments. With all the adjustments, I still prefer the sound when everything is placed to spec, and no adjustment to the tone controls. I feel like I'm missing a fleshed out mid-range, and the high's can be too bright sometimes. The low end is ok, but could use some help. The turntable has the same sound profile as the SACD player, so I'm thinking the turntable is setup properly, and it has more to do with components/speakers

I'm not one to throw money at something to fix it, but if that's what it requires, I can drop up $1000 give or take. What I have looked into: newer speakers, tube phono pre-amp, tube buffer (i'm a bit intrigued as with this as the Outlaw has a built in processor loop which would work nicely with this). I'm kind of happy with the cartridges I have, so I don't really want to make changes there.

Any advice is appreciated.

 

The garage location is your first and likely main problem. All those hard surfaces will result in the sound you're getting.

 

First thing my mind went to is room treatment. A untreated garage sounds like a lot of hard surfaces, which may be contributing to the harshness you're hearing.

Have you tried rugs, pillows, blankets hung on the wall...that sort of thing?

 

Yes, I have a rug and couch setup in front of the system. It's essentially like a living room, but in a garage. The listening area is on the left side of the garage, so it is up against on wall, but is open to the rest on the right of it.

 

Pics would illustrate how things are much better and possibly give us a clue as to the best way to proceed to achieve the biggest improvement.

 

All that expensive gear in a garage? I hope your garage door locks are the size of watermelons. Your Outlaw amplifier alone costs around $1000.

And I just checked that model of Outlaw amp and found it has a Speaker EQ that will boost bass frequencies as high as 80Hz. Have you tried that?

 

Ill get some in a bit

I know I know...There are reasons why it is in the garage which you will see when I can get some pictures up here. I prefer a locked garage to rolling the dice with a 1 and 4 year old running around. I don't exactly have a good place inside either.

Yes, I forgot to mentioned I am using the 80 hz boost, it does help slightly. But the midrange is still meh..

 

Essentially, but there is a difference between a typical living room floor with wall-to-wall carpeting or a wood floor and rug and a garage with a concrete floor. Also, there tends to be more soft furniture in a living/listening room. Then there's the garage door...made of metal? Cars in the other parking spaces are also reflective objects. My gut still tells me you need more absorptive surfaces and other objects to break up standing waves (12x12 egg cartons work on the cheap!)

What is on the walls? Tapestries or a rug hung on a wall can help a a lot if you don't want to spring for dedicate room treatment.

Is the ceiling drywall? You might try egg cartons on the ceiling as well.

Pics would help.

 

Stand in your garage area clap your hands together with some force and listen to that sound. Is the sound sharp with reverb?

 

I'm at work right now, but i will definitely get pics up in a bit. The walls and ceiling are drywall, doors are aluminum. The walls are currently adorned with blacklight posters, and I have a tapestry on the ceiling.

 

I am using 5 Paradigm speakers right now. My Studio 10 can get really bright with class AB and class D amp. Using Parasound amp help somewhat as it operates in class A mode for the few few watts. Using Marantz preamp helps further. But it is still bright compared to my Signature S2.
My suggestion is to demo a Paramount amp where you can return if not satisfied. If Parasound amp does not help, you might want to consider changing speakers.

 

Moving blankets......I don't care how it looks, and harbor freight is having a sale. Any objections?

 

Yep; my solution to young'uns was to shut the electronics in a cabinet and push the speakers fronts up against the wall. Pain in the neck when I wanted to listen, but it saved gear (that I couldn't afford to replace) from little fingers. Still lost a stylus from a curious 6 year old, but it was a good learning experience for her - and an excuse to upgrade the cartridge for daddy.

Sounds like room treatments first, then address amplification or speakers. Sometimes it's a system synergy issue; my system even in a live room was just too warm with a Marantz SACD player, my system already tends warm. I would advise against a tube "buffer", I haven't seen one yet that really did anything beyond introducing soft distortion and roll-offs.

 

FWIW: I've never been a fan of the (handful of) Paradigm speakers that I have heard. They were too clinical and cold for my tastes. So, if your speakers should bear any sonic resemblance to the models which I have heard, then I suspect that they could represent a major portion of your problem.

 

I am leaning in this direction, as I have read that my speakers are on the bright sounding side. I got them for a steal, and would not be upset if they needed to go. But I would also like to address the room first.

 

It's not worth the hassle trying to kid proof, plus it's a man cave setup. Although I do keep an old stanton cart on for when i'm not around, just in case. The garage is attached, but has good insulation for night time listening, it doesn't wake anyone up. Thanks for the heads up on the buffer.

 

Have you tried moving the speakers a few feet from the walls, especially the back wall?

 

All your gear looks great and obviously would perform great... sounds like a speaker placement and/or your room acoustics.
Probably been said before but a heavy rug in the area between your 'sweet spot' and the speakers. A large rug or piece of felt
that you can roll up when not in use covering your garage door. Also the other two parking spaces in your garage would
definitely contribute to out of balance room acoustics.
I have my speakers on stands (poles) and the bottom of the speakers have two holes, so I have a choice...one hole sits on the
pole to keep the speaker dead level, the other hole has the speaker tilting down 5 degrees. If you had them tilting down slightly
with a rug on the floor that could give the bass a bit more warmth and take a little brightness off the top. Your missing mid-
range may be drifting into those other two car spaces.

 

I'm about 18" off the backwall.

I do have a rug in between the speakers and the sweet spot. I am going to make a trip to Harbor Freight today and pickup some moving blankets. I'm going to use them to wall off the area.

 

Well if ya can't hang ya some fancy drapes, and doilies for the end tables...howabout getting a crane, and lifting out that motor that's been sitting in your project car for months...and just leave the motor hangin', to dampen the sound!...!
Howabout a festive rack of tires sitting alongside the longest wall, to diffuse echo? And as long as it's a mancave anyway...hang some football or basketball team pennants, diagonally, to break up the reflections.

 

When your speakers are that close to back walls, you might have room null between 100 to 150 Hz. That could be the issue of your mid bass.

Moving the speaker's out a few feet may move the null down to the 60 to 90 Hz region. That null can be fill in by your sub, sitting close to the back wall.

 

As a paradigm owner of both studio 40’s and 100’s I can tell you those speakers are not warm. I spent a load of money to try and warm them up with no success. I also ran the 100’s with a 2m black for nearly 200 hours, neither it nor the bronze is a warm cart.

If you can’t or don’t want to change your speakers, a new cart would be my choice. I just put a Shure on the table I have in that system and it really took the edge off the brightness. It also put a bit of a blanket over the speakers but it’s much less fatiguing.

 

I believe the speakers aren't helping and will likely be addressed. I got the MP-110 (which is considered a warm cart) to see if that would help, and it didn't. I like the detail and soundstage of the bronze, and got it on the cheap. My last resort would be to switch out the cart.

 

Outlaw amp...leans to the right side of neutral (bright leaning) Paradigm studio 20's v3..leans also to the right of neutral. That's the main problem. What you want is one or the other to be opposite of the other if at all possible. When in such a set up....you would have to find the warmest interconnect and speaker cable you can find to fix it. Don't know about QED , but all the Audioquest I've heard was neutral to left leaning. But in my experience over the years you want the amp and speaker to be opposite.....if both are bright....ear bleed....if both are warm....sleepy time.

BTW..I love those Studios.... they are excellent with warm tubes.

 

I have heard it all now! Thanks.