In Search of Warmth...

I solve brightness on my audio systems, both car/home, by first reducing the highs either with the treble (home system) or on my (car head unit's 3 band EQ) until it gets noticeably soft (no crispies) and then I increase overall volume so the midrange comes into balance along with the bass.

I thought since the OP said my Billy Idol YouTube example previously posted sounded very close to what he was getting on his Paradigm shelf speakers that would've been a better and easier solution. Just throwing that out there.

 

A bad pic and I have a rather limiting room as well, but this gives for me a sound that is neutral and gives very good imaging. Damping panels (they should be just a bit bigger, but the y come in certain sizes), carpet (should be just a bit larger though), diffusion between the speakers, and Ikeas "Kvistbro" table stuffed with blankets, and two sofas in angle. Two top speakers and two subs/stands crossover 80 Hz, so I can adjust the bass level in this small room.

 

I did try this approach, but was not getting the results I wanted. Ultimately, using three layers of gauze (as one user recommended) and proper placement has gotten me very close. I do intend to try out using a resistor on the tweeters (see first or second page) to see what happens there. As of right now, I am not cringing anymore.

 

Very nice. I was doing some research of paneling and placement. I am going to experiment with placement of blankets, and once that is good, I will build some panels, similar to what you have

 

I went the route you are going. I covered my listening room walls and floor with thick cotton batting. I played with speaker positioning so that I was not listening directly on the tweeter axis. I also carefully measured and positioned the speakers so that they were a different distance from each room boundary (and none of the distances was a multiple of any other) to minimize quarter wave cancellations and strengthen the bass. I installed (natural fiber) rings around my tweeters to cut their brightness. It all helped but in the end the speakers ( a set of B&W's with metal dome tweeters like your Paradigms) still sounded bright.

The turning point for me was my sister visiting. She told me my listening room looked like a padded cell. She feared that I had lost it.

After that I got rid of all the room treatments. I got rid of the bright sounding B&W speakers and replaced them with a pair of Dynaudio speakers with fabric dome tweeters and a much more neutral sound and I never looked back.

 

If you don’t mind me asking, what speakers did you get?

 

Dynaudio Focus 140's.

 

I had those same speakers...amazing output for their size.

 

I would be the seller of tubes and have a Musical Fidelity X-10D buffer stage available. PM me and I can walk you through how I use them in my system.

 

Good to hear someone else notices high frequency sound textures are different according to the material the tweeters are made of. My car's Polk 6x8's have aluminum tweeters and because of their overly bright almost in the soft raspy noise/dog whistle regions I can afford to reduce my head unit's 3 band EQ highs by 6db and then raise the volume and get back the detail I lost but with a much softer and realistic sound.

But on my home system 2 way 1984 Norman Labs Model 82's with Mylar tweeters the highs tend to take on a kazoo sound texture.

 

They must have been bright, those B&Ws. Dynaudio isn't exactly known for warmth ...

 

I would say that's right. Dynaudio, if anything, voice for strict neutrality.

Yet you will never get sizzling highs from a Dynaudio fabric dome tweeter.

I was not going for neutrality at first. I was aiming for a warmer sounding speaker. It came down to a choice between the Spendor 3/1r and the Dynaudio Focus 140.

Before I ever listened to either I would have sworn that I would prefer the Spendor but that's not what happened.

The Spendor sounded significantly more coloured and less neutral. I heard more of its colouration and less music. The Dynaudio seemed to do a better job of disappearing, of getting out of the way...so I went with them.

 

Tru dat! I have some Bozak 401's out in the garage. It's sublime.

 

Remember this.

Every room is different, there is no such thing as a standard room, ever!

When the sound is right to your ears, stop worrying about "hand clapping" and sit back and enjoy your music!

 

Buddy I know you've ignored my two postings, and you have that right..but, bright is bright. You can try and cover it , mask it, spend precious time putting on layers of this and that... all for nothing...because in the end of the day, you still have mismatched gear. Like I've said .....you have to change one or the other. The goal.....bring the sound into neutral ...the core has to have synergy.....your core....the amp and speakers ain't got no synergy. One has to go...unless you want to cover the real sound which causes fatigue or ear bleed.

 

Depends on what model of Dynaudios. Most of the Contor series are neutral .

 

I've spent time with Dynaudio Evidence, Consequence , Confidence, Contour, and Excite. The Consequence has a very odd design. The huge woofer sits at the very top. Going from memory, looks like below this huge woofer on top, you have two diffefent sized midrange drivers, followed by two different sized tweeters at the very bottom where normally the woofer sits. This huge speaker was driven by a huge Bolder preamp and a pair of Clayton Audio mono block amps. Now mind you, the tweeters where on the very bottom of the speaker. The sound was awful! The tweeters where bright as all get out.

A buddy of mine some years ago had a pair of Contour speakers matched with Conrad Johnson separates. The neutral Dynaudios didn't mate with the warm Conrad Johnson at all. It was syrupy warm....listening to that rig was like sleepy time

 

Not ignoring your posts. I am planning on getting new speakers, but I want to at least try and maximize what I have. What I’ve done so far has made a large enough difference to tide me over until i’m ready to make a comfortable decision on what I want.

I have a friend who is going to loan me a pair of Dynaudio excite x12’s, then I can at least have something to compare to

 

I stand corrected.

If you like the Excite which started out as a Dynaudios budget speaker....the best value may be found in the Contour series if you can find a nice used pair.....shop the used market. Also a speaker that's in that same vein is the Canadian speaker company Totem Acoustics. Also ...dont know if they are still around, but look for an even cheaper budget pair of speakers that use to be like the Contours.....and at a time years ago use to also use Dynaudio drivers....Swan D1.1 book shelves.

Carry on.

 

Regarding room optimisation, if you have some science/mathematics inclination, you may like to read up on Wallace Sabine, and apply that to your listening space.
Sabine's Formula & Modern Architectural Acoustics

 

A cheap, and probably effective fix for vinyl warmth would be to try a couple of cartridges with conical/spherical stylii. With modern amps they can often sound fuller and smoother. Stanton Discmaster V3 gives me great results, and is plug-and-play on turntables with removable headshells.

Regarding speakers, I have always loved the sound of Mission, have used them for years with lots of amps, they're never bright, or boomy or hard sounding, latest range is better than ever - not sure about availability, or how well known they are in North America though.

 

That garage is on the one hand a very tough environment. BUT on the other hand it is a pretty blank slate, you can pretty much do what you want it seems without worrying about anyone else's opinion. THAT is powerful, my friend! Some other random thoughts, at no extra charge:
- I don't *think* anyone mentioned the "sub crawl": put the sub where your head would be, and listen/measure places the sub could go. By reciprocity, that will give you ideas how it would sound. Probably with the crossover set all the way up.
- Don't be too quick to change out from that Outlaw, because it is one of the VER VERY FEW units with truly adjustable bass management. Part of "warmth" is the bass response, and the RR2150 has a lot of tools for adjusting that through the crossover region. Of course, to do this best you need some kind of response measurement tool which perhaps someone can comment on, or you could post a thread at Subwoofers - diyAudio or Subwoofers, Bass, and Transducers - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews (and also get a lot of advice about positioning and crossover besides).
- Other sub-forums there might inspire you to build speakers, especially from kits like these heh heh Titan Speaker Kits
- You could also consider building subwoofers into the couch!
- Somehow I feel if you change the speakers, think about changing to towers. That gives more overlap to tune with the sub, and also more midbass output capacity with less distortion.
- Room treatment or not, move everything to the right away from that left wall.

 

Alright folks, so I am planning a bit of an overhaul to my system:

Speakers: I am intrigued by Tekton brand speakers. I'm thinking either an upgraded set of Lores, or stock Impacts. There is a bit of a size difference between the two. I'm leaning more towards the Impacts as I can probably get some more thump on the low end, but the Lores are more price friendly. I basically am looking for a pair that will be full enough to overcome the deficiencies of the room.

Phono Pre-Amp: The Outlaw's phono pre is a bit noisy for me, the gain is set at 60db and cannot be changed, I have a ground hum issue I cannot track down and the high gain isn't helping. I'm leaning toward something like a Vincent PHO-700 (tubed) that has a seperate power supply, the PHO-8 I had was dead silent with no detectable hum and used a similar configuration. I am open to suggestion here.

Turntable: The PLX has been giving me problems as of late. First, one of the tonearm cables shorted out due to the shoddy EMF sheathing fraying and puncturing the wire while I was adjusting VTA. I went and rewired the arm with Cardas Litz, which was a nightmare to solder. Second, I am having issues with IGD, regardless of which cartridge, that isn't present on my cheap old Sony table, and the inaccurate anti-skate is a bit frustrating. I'd say that i'm over it at this point. Someone was selling a GEM Super 12 on here, but when I was ready to pull the trigger he decided not to sell. I am interested in the GEM Polytable, but I've seen comments about it regarding lack of bass. I am open to suggestion on this one. Whatever I get needs to be an endgame table.

Let me know what you guys think

 

"lack off bass" in a turntable isn't something I buy into. The job of a table is to be dead silent and have adjustments that can dial in a cart with exacting precision. Those two features do not come without cost and that really is what you are paying for in a reference level table. I would be suspicious of the advice of anyone that tells you a table does or doesn't have bass.

Every Outlaw phono I've heard has had more noise that I find acceptable. But with tubes, dead quiet isn't an easy thing to get to. I'll take a little tube hiss to get the warmth and mid range of a tube.

I would bet money the ground hum is in that Pioneer turntable. It's a fine table but a higher end phono stage is going to show you it's limitations.

 

That’s what I figured, comment I saw mentioned “lack of bass extension”, maybe I’m reading into this incorrectly. I have the same hum issue with another table, so I don’t think it’s specifically the PLX causing it.