In Search of Warmth...

Oh man sweet table and arm! Keep us posted

 

I haven’t read the whole thread, but has anyone mentioned the garage door being a potential problem?

I put insulation on my garage door after installing an A/C unit in my garage, and it cut down on reverberation (and ambient noise from outside) quite a bit.

https://www.lowes.com/pd/Owens-Corn...with-Sound-Barrier-22-in-W-x-4-5-ft-L/1243805

 

Thanks, i have the door covered with a moving blanket. I do plan on insulating the doors soon

 

Alright! So I finally got some warmth. Everything is breaking in and sounding great. I ended up swapping out the Outlaw with a Rouge Tempest II Super Magnum.

The Rouge sounds super clean, but I do have a problem, it’s output isn’t as much as I would like. Don’t get me wrong, it does get loud, but runs out of steam before I can get to the edge of the stratosphere (my happy place). I’m open to ideas. Where can I get the same clean sound but with pushing it to the limit?

 

This makes to sense to me at all. You have an updated power amplifier driving four KT88 power tubes to 90-WPC. This amp has a hughe power supply with a large power supply transformer. This has some serious iron behind it, it weighs 60-lbs. most of that weight is coming from the iron!



There is no way that this amp should run out of juice?

 

Idk, I do like it LOUD. I got the volume pegged up all the way, and it’s close, but I’d like to go an extra 15 - 20%. Bear in mind I have been working in machine shops the past 15 years, so my definition of loud is a tad higher than most folks. The amp is running kt-120’s

 

Loud in term of everything loud? Or you want more bass impacts?

 

I think Rogue could upgrade it to accept the KT-120s if it doesn’t already. But if 90W doesn’t ring your bell, 100 or so will not either. You are the poster child for getting a nice, tubular preamp, and a monster SS power amp.

 

Loud in terms of everything. The rogue has an awesome sound profile, the bass is incredible. I just need more spl

 

It’s running kt-120’s right now. I was hoping to avoid buying more gear. I’ll try and run the preout of the rogue into the amp section of the outlaw, and see how that sounds

 

Congrats on the new speakers. With regard to the amp, can KT-150's be swapped in? Also, if you are using the 8-ohm taps, try the 4-ohm taps. That might give more bass control and impact.


Oh I see now that it does not have separate taps but rather a toggle switch. Try both options to see which provides the best bass control and impact.

Another option would be to bypass the internal pre-amp section and use the Tempest as a power amp with a higher gain separate pre-amp.

 

For loud, I would forget altogether about high end stuff, because it is well beyond your $1000 budget to get loud and audiophile sound quality at the same time. Some decent used PA speakers (JBL, EV, etc.) or some Klipsch Forte, Chorus, etc. and a semi-pro amp like a Crown XLS will sound a lot less harsh when the volume gets way up there.

 

The impedance is set by swapping out wires on the inside of the unit. The speakers are 4 ohm, so I had already set it up as such. The switch on the back is to toggle between ultra-linear and triode modes, there is not huge noticable difference between the two.

I am going to contact Rogue and see what my options are. I’m thinking this has more to do with the passive preamp, and not getting enough gain. I’ll mess around a bit with my phono pre gain, and see if it makes a difference. The amount of extra headroom I’m trying to grab is not much and can probably be fixed with a few minor changes

 

OK, a few things here. I don't know what your amp is designed to put out power wise. It is designed to run a quad of KT88's at 90-WPC. if you have had the power supply altered or upgraded, then it may be able to put out more power.

But, otherwise, putting a KT-120 or even the larger KT-150 power tube in place of the KT88's will not give you any more power.

There is only so much power running through the place circuit and replacing a KT88 with a KT-120 or KT-150, will not yield you any more power. These tubes are built to handle more power, but you have to give them the power in the first place.

Let's go back and revisit your initial post, where you were on a search for "warmth".

This is kink of like a cave man and his quest for fire. You show him how to rub two sticks together and then he ends up wanting a thermonuclear device?

Conside a previous quote of mine to you.

And yet another...

Seriously, where do you think you are going with those "cute little speakers"?

It doesn't matter how much power you are going to put into them, they are not going to give you any kind of performance like you are now indicating that you desire. And, they are likely to blow up!

Polk is offering a 40% off sale on their RTi product line, which was designed for HT use and have plenty of dynamics and can handle a lot of power and put out some serious sound.

The RTiA7's are currently priced at $299.97 each.



The RTiA9's are currently priced at $449.97 each.



These are some serious speakers for the price. These things weigh 75-lbs. each, compared to a respectable 43-lbs. for your Paradigm Studio 20 V.3 Bookshelf Speakers.

The RTiA9's have a -3 dB point at 30-Hz. and play down to a low of 18-Hz and are 90-dB efficient.

BTW, I have a pair of these myself. They can really kick some butt, you can run most any Polk off of a SS amp for more power, control and bass response. Here is one of the RTiA9's next to my vintage Altec's, the day the RTiA9's arrived.



You seriously are not going to go where you want to go with those bookshelf Paradigm Studio 20 V.3, as nice as thy must be.

If you want to get serious, you could buy an old beater pair of Altec's for your man cave.

 

Your right in that case, that is why I got the Tekton Impacts. I’ve never had a quality sound system prior to this, so i’m in a different headspace now vs 3 months ago when I started this thread, now that I know what good stuff sounds like. Hence the contradiction.

The Super Magnum upgrade for the tempest comes with KT-120’s, and your right, they do not increase the output. I got the Rogue to try and see how tubes sounded, and because I got a good deal on it. It is a better sounding amp than the Outlaw, hands down, and I don’t feel bad trying it out, esp. for what I paid.

 

It is really nice, when you finally hear something and you say to yourself, "oh, this is what nice gear and music really sound like"!

So, with both the Rogue and the Tekton Impacts, you still don't have the power that you would like to have?

 

Yes, but not far off. A few of the responses from above brought to my attention something I forgot about, and that is that the preamp on the rogue is passive and maybe that is the limiting factor.

 

The Rogue Tempest is an integrated pure tube amplifier.

It has an active preamp stage. Rogue does not make passive preamp's or preamp stages.

 

The Tempest II is passive, the III is active.

 

Didn't know this.

 

You can quickly test this out by switching in anything with an active gain stage...such as the preamp outs from your Outlaw or a CD Player (or File Player) with variable output (volume control).

If this experiment gets you where you need to go (gain-wise), you can shop around for an active (tube) pre-amp that suits your needs.

 

That’s the plan

 

The Thorens looks mighty fine there on your audio cart. The speakers appear to me as upgradable. Maybe higher efficiency is the way to go, vs twice as much power? (if both are increased all the more spl.. bear in mind this simple rule, double the power increases acoustic output by +3dB) There are other advantages with heavy iron, better control of bass, and almost always deeper into the lowest octave. The speaker tweeter array seems practical for your listening area.. well controlled vertical dispersion (narrow) vs wider horizontal dispersion. The woofer surface mounted (on the outside surface of the baffle) tends to kill bass.. not the best design. The woofer should be at least flush mounted.. or inside the baffle for a more focused, more authoritative bass response. (surface mount increases cabinet resonance by multiple factors) The same should apply to the midrange driver, as flush mount helps to minimize diffraction off the frame, and also reduces cabinet resonance. (the function of the baffle is to isolate the back wave from the forward wave... any energy directed at the baffle sets it into motion.. not good)

My criticism with out hearing these speakers may be unfair.. I concede to this, but I like what @SandAndGlass suggested. Maybe give those Polks a try!

 

I agree with room treatment, which was my first thought too. Posters and rugs and tapestries and **** are all well and good, but they don't do much to prevent sound from bouncing around. If you can hear the music through that tapestry, so can the walls/ceiling behind it. Treating the space will give you way better results than any hardware change upgrade - you'll be treating the disease instead of the the symptoms.
FWIW I have two yougsters as well (1 and 3) and they know by now that the knobs on the hi fi are off limits and I have zero worries that they'll break anything. They both LOVE listening to tunes and dancing around....you might want to consider bringing all that good music into the house after all. It'll sound better too