Inside Llewyn Davis

Discussion in 'Visual Arts' started by HiFi Guy 008, Dec 2, 2013.

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  1. agentalbert

    agentalbert Senior Member

    Location:
    San Antonio, TX
    I liked the movie quite a bit, but that's probably only because I was blissfully unaware of the true path of I-80 in relation to Akron.
     
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  2. Did they use your avatar?
     
  3. Alan2

    Alan2 Forum Resident

    Location:
    UK
  4. ampmods

    ampmods Forum Resident

    Location:
    Boston, MA, USA
    Great movie. I'm glad it didn't get any oscar nominations though... seems fitting to the theme. :)

    sort of SPOILERS ahead...

    One of the things my wife couldn't understand was why he didn't take the opportunities he was given. First taking the royalty for playing on that session and second taking the opportunity to be combined into a Peter, Paul and Mary group by an influential and powerful manager. He was his own worst enemy when it came to that. Also with the uptown couple he seemed to be really abusing his opportunities or connections. But what was perfect about that to me is that he has his own vision as an artist. He believes in doing something one way and that's the only way. What is the point of struggle or putting your heart and soul into something if you compromise your vision? Well... success and sustainability is the point. But that's not what he's after. I think that's sort of a hard thing to get across to people who might not be in the same sort of mind set (tortured 'artists' and all).

    And that is in part of what drives him to be an a-hole. He knows what he wants. He knows he can't get it. He is hopeless but he still tries because he is still driven to accomplish what he wants. But the chance of him getting anywhere is slim to none which people seem to be constantly reminding him. What the manager says at the club about Jean is funny because that is a big part of it too. They can get crowds to their shows because people are attracted to Jean. I've seen so many mediocre local bands over time that can fill a room because they have an attractive singer. And the point about 'connecting to an audience' is funny because when you hate what an audience loves... why would you even want to connect? Well you have to if you are a performer. The conflict felt really true.

    I think the death of his partner wasn't really so emotional for him on a personal level as much as it represents the loss of opportunity for his own career. His best shot is over.
    Pushing the box of lps under that table only to find another box of lps was hysterical. How many musicians in the CD era can relate to having boxes and boxes of CDs you'll never get rid of? Ha.

    I think hearing Dylan at the end was funny. From what I understand of him at the time was that he was really driven but he was also really flexible at least initially. He was willing to do just about anything to connect with people. Of course that would change dramatically over his career. But at that time he was willing to do what Llyewn was not and as a result he achieved what Llyewn could only dream of.
     
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  6. minerwerks

    minerwerks Forum Resident

    Location:
    Atlanta, GA, USA
    I need to pick up this film on Blu-ray and re-watch it, but I thought I was picking up on something when watching in the theater and I wondered what others might have thought.

    When Llewyn returned to that apartment (belonging to the Gorfeins) and had the blow-up over the wife singing his partner Mike's harmony parts, it occurred to me that this couple might have been Mike's parents. The hurt experienced between the two in that moment seemed so deep, much too harsh a reaction for there not to be some unspoken subtext. Mrs. Gorfein had to either be extremely comfortable or extremely rude to begin singing those parts while Llewyn was performing. And while most people have indicated that Llewyn's reaction is tied to his artistic purity and consistent with his behavior throughout the film, his behavior in that situation seems to come from a deeper place and is much more intense.

    It is true that the couple has the surname Gorfein and Llewyn's partner was named Mike Timlin, but I don't think it's a stretch to believe that Timlin was a stage name.
     
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  7. ampmods

    ampmods Forum Resident

    Location:
    Boston, MA, USA
    That's a really interesting idea! It seems possible and even makes some sense. Although I suppose I'd expect a bigger clue to be out there in something the couple said or even in their apartment.

    To me it just seemed like the couple were fans of the arts and thought of themselves as contributing something by giving Llyewn a place to stay sometimes, etc. But as open and giving as they were to Llyewn, he couldn't reciprocate. For one he doesn't feel like he needs to. Strange as it may seem... sometimes difficult artists are hardest on those who are their biggest fans. You like me... but do you really like me for the right reason? It further shows his inability to connect to others. He expects people to connect with him. When she starts singing that part, to me it sort of demonstrated that she was a fan of the 'old stuff' more than appreciating him for what he is now (or at least that might be how he saw it). Same thing happened at the club when the owner said appreciatively "you used to do that one with Mike."

    So why was he doing that old tune at all? Maybe he was trying to connect to a time with more promise. Maybe he was trying to own it in the now. Or maybe he knew it was all coming to an end and he just naturally fell back to it.
     
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  8. Ted Bell

    Ted Bell Forum Dentist


    I just watched it for the first time on DVD last Friday and loved it. Couldn't stop thinking about it all weekend. I don't think the Gorfein's were Mike's parents. I think they were typical UWS NYC intellectual "patrons of the arts" and fans and benefactors of Timlin and Davis. I get the feeling Mike was the duo's "better half" in all respects and greatly missed.
     
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  9. Bill Hart

    Bill Hart Forum Resident

    Location:
    Austin
    I'm not sure where I come out on this film, but that's ok- at least it got me thinking. As to period accuracy, and whether there was a compelling 'story' here, I took it as an atmospheric rendering of the period, and it worked on that level. The tension between 'artistic purity' (whatever that is) and commercial success remains a constant in music and other arts; as i understand it, when Dylan went 'electric' there was a huge split among the hoary old 'folkies' and those who welcomed the change. I liked some of the locations, including that big modern rest stop over the highway on the way to Chicago, and the UWS apartment of the Gorfeins.
    Most of the characters-at least those in the 'business' - were generally unlikeable (although the 'girl'*at Davis' label was classic- I've been to more than my share of moldering businesses in NYC back in the day, and the exchange over 'where's Cincinnati' was priceless).
    There's a lot written on the web over the allegorical significance of the cat. But, without watching it again (and I'm not sure I want to, i found the movie sad), where did the linear story line stop and the flashback begin? Or was it a Mobeus strip?
    ______________
    *Term of art for secretary- no matter what the age-back in the day, e.g., 'my girl' will call you- we have a friend, now in her late 70's, who worked as Morris Levy's secretary back in the day.
     
  10. R. Totale

    R. Totale The Voice of Reason

    The flash forward was at the very beginning, from his first song through the scene in the alley. Time breaks there and he wakes up in the apartment a week before, time goes forward and the FF reappears close to the end.
     
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  11. Raylinds

    Raylinds Resident Lake Surfer

    I finally saw this on BD last night and really enjoyed it. My GF saw it in the theater and din't like it at all, but I am drawn to Greenwich Village in the sixties, so that alone was enough to make me see it. I loved the music. I liked the mood of it and I actually liked Llewyn, though recognize he could be as A-hole. I thought he was very witty.

    Spoiler Alert

    I actually liked him better then Jean, who took absolutely no responsibility for their affair. Yes, he was a jerk for screwing his friend's girl, but so was she for screwing her lover's friend- but she put all the blame on him. I thought it ironic that a soldier was having success as a folk singer, given the pacifist nature of that culture, and it was someone that Llewyn apparently felt had little talent. In fact, Llewyn's hell was seeing these comparatuvely fluffy, and gimmicky songs and artists making it while the serious an authentic folkie (himself) gets nothing but rejection.

    I also liked the fact that he was really concerned about losing the Gorfein's cat. If he was as big of an A-hole as he seemed, he wouldn't have cared. I also thought the scene where he hits the other cat with the car and watches it limp into the woods was interesting. At first I thought he might try to get it, but I think he thought that he just brought bad luck and the cat was better off on its own then with him.
     
  12. 93curr

    93curr Senior Member

    I felt he was using his own bad luck as an excuse to avoid responsibility. The "turning point" in the move for me was the moment when he left the cat in the car; it (a: Llewyn is the cat vs, Llewyn has the cat, b: where is its scrotum?!?) was waiting for Llewyn to take it with him and he just abandoned it consciously (as opposed to the carelessness he had shown previously). It resonated at the end when he got furious with the club manager and took it out on the poor, helpless innocent bystander on the stage. Closing the door on the cat in the third act was, for me, anyway, like the scene in 'Serious Man' where the teacher took the money - it justified (well, kind of - the Coens don't truck much with the concept of "fairness", methinks) the punishment. Him getting beaten up in the alley at the end felt very different from the opening scene because we knew why he deserved it.

    He abandoned the cat, he abandoned his career, he abandoned his kid, he abandoned himself. I'm sure he felt the cat was better off alone in a cold car with a passed out OD victim than with a bad luck magnet like himself, but that justification did more to help Llewyn to continue to see himself as the victim than to help the cat. When he watched the injured cat hobble into the woods, I assume Llewyn was thinking that it was just like his partner killing himself or how his own life would surely end.
     
  13. Raylinds

    Raylinds Resident Lake Surfer

    I have to admit you make a compelling argument. Suprisingly, I had forgotten him abandoning the cat in the car when I wrote my post- suprising because it struck me, too, that it was a concious decision to abandon the cat, which dusappointed me. I really need to watch this again and give it more thought, but I am inclined to agree with you.
     
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  14. R. Totale

    R. Totale The Voice of Reason

    The soldier in the film, I believe, is fairly closely modeled after Tom Paxton, who did come into the Villiage for weekend hoots while stationed at Fort Dix.
     
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  15. Well that other folk singer was like Tom Paxton who also came back from the military to sing and record folk music
     
  16. Didn't see yours first.
     
  17. Ghostworld

    Ghostworld Senior Member

    Location:
    US
    Finally saw this. I thought it dragged. Good thing they threw in that cat. If it wasn't for the cat, the first hour would have been intolerable. And I guess that should say a lot. Second half was better, but the meandering nature of the first half tested my patience.
     
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  18. kwadguy

    kwadguy Senior Member

    Location:
    Cambridge, MA
    My interest in and knowledge of music, and of the period and place, got me through the movie. But in terms of story...it was very weak. It could be summarized as follows: The main character was his own worst enemy.

    But there was no redemption. And because we don't even know if he was a modestly talented hack or a brilliant guy who didn't get to grab the gold ring, we can't know if his self destructive nature was tragic or just pathetic.

    I guess maybe that's my main problem. If we were shown some reason to believe that his was a rare talent that deserved more success, then his self-sabotage would be tragic. But we aren't, and so this might just-as-possibly be a modestly talented guy who went through life making things harder on himself. The world is filled with the latter. And so what?
     
  19. John DeAngelis

    John DeAngelis Senior Member

    Location:
    New York, NY
    I just watched it this weekend. I found it way too negative. John Goodman was really good in it.
     
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  20. Ghostworld

    Ghostworld Senior Member

    Location:
    US
    The performances were all great as usual with the Cohen bros. They know how to cast. I will watch it again. Maybe a second viewing will speed up the pace of the first half.

    I just watched it again. It a good movie. It's really kind of a bummer though. Very depressing. If you're in the arts you can really appreciate how depressing it is. I mean that's the way the whole thing works. Doesn't matter if you're a great artist. And I believe were supposed to think he's a great artist. The loving way he's presented singing. And who does the Chicago club owner like? The soldier with the Gomer pile smile and the vanilla outlook who is highly marketable. Ain't
    that the truth. I mean being a music forum it's amazing so many people liked it. It makes the music business look fairly tawdry. John Goodman the smacked out blues player. The commercialism. The sleazy bar owner. It doesn't really paint a very glamorous picture of the music business. I think it's one of those movies if youre in a mood to feel down you'll like it. A nice little step into the shoes of a failure. I think I get enough of that in real life. I think of course you'll also like it if you enjoy Folk music. Which I pretty much can't stand. Which might explain my response to it in part. I kinda disliked there being so many songs.
    We had folky tavern called Godfrey Daniels in my university town and once or twice I was taken there to watch Folk music. I would rather be torn apart by wild horses then sit through most folk acts. I'm sorry to say
     
    Last edited: May 5, 2014
  21. Guy R

    Guy R Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Canada
    Won't watch the movie again but I can't stop watching "Another Day Another Time".
     
  22. vegafleet

    vegafleet Forum Resident

    I loved the movie.

    As to the flash forward idea, I have a different take than yours.

    I believe he is in Pulgatory, reliving endlessly the mistakes of his life. Let me explain:

    1) When we first see LD he is singing "Been all around the World" in the nightclub, a well known folk song with the refrain "Hang me, oh, hang me". Did he kill himself, which landed him in purgatory?

    2)The scene when the cat first wakes him in the Golfeins apartment leads into the events we see in the movie (about a week's worth), starting with the cat sneaking out of the apartment. The second time the cat wakes him, it is the day where he is going to play at the nightclub and later get beat up. Yet it is the same time because he is shown doing some of the same things as the first time before he leaves the apartment. The second time a few things are significantly different:
    a) He knows not to let the cat get out. He learned from his mistake the first time around.
    b) At the nightclub again he sings "Been all around the World" and now follows it with the song he used to sing with his partner (If I had Wings), as if he is beginning to make peace with his partner's death.

    3) Some characters seem to be in their own purgatory. The John Goodman character is basically killing himself and is in the hell of his addiction and can't get out of it. Jane (not judging here, just saying..) might end also in pulgatory for the abortion she is planning on having. This also explains why he can't go to Akron to see his previous girlfriend: she didn't have an abortion, thus is not in pulgatory. Akron (where she is) is shown as an oasis of light in the dark of night. His father is also, it seems to me, in pulgatory.

    I am probably reading too much into it, or it is just a red herring, but this is what I was thinking as I was watching the movie.

    Hated the cheap shot of throwing Dylan into the movie. Too cute. Yet I kept waiting for it! But I thought it was a first rate movie.
     
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  23. bluemooze

    bluemooze Senior Member

    Location:
    Frenchtown NJ USA
    The songs are jokes. Well recorded/well performed jokes. Not to be taken seriously. The opening song he performs in the club is a mockery of every folk cliché they could think of. IMO. YMMV.
     
  24. Dee Zee

    Dee Zee Once Upon a Dream

    Actually I've come to like the songs a lot better away from the movie and just listening to the soundtrack CD. Took a while but it did grow on me. Now I may have to watch the film again. I saw it the theater upon first release.
     
  25. vegafleet

    vegafleet Forum Resident

    The opening song is not a joke. "Been all around this World" is a real folk song. Maybe better known by being covered by Jerry Garcia (solo and with The GD). It's even the title song in one of Jerry's solo albums.

    I postulated above that the song (far from being a joke) was chosen for its "hang me, oh, hang me, so I'll be dead and gone" repeated refrain, maybe as an indication that the suicide is his.

    The movie takes the music seriously. Only the "Kennedy" song is a joke, but it is supposed to be a novelty jokey song in the plot of the movie. It is not unintentionally funny.
     
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