Installing DL-110 on RP3. Weird issues with tracking force.

Just got myself a DL-110. Got it mounted after a fair bit of frustration. Used both a Stevenson and Baerwald protractor from vinylengine but couldn't get either perfect. Cart was nicely aligned to the grid but never followed the line perfectly on either protractor. It was either slightly in front or slightly behind where it needed to be on the marks. I got as close as possible and decided to see how it sounded as I was sick of fiddling. Sounded great straight away and no noticeable distortion at the start or finish of a side. Next was getting tracking force dialed in. My problem here is that when I adjust the arm so it's floating as per the manual, I can't get it to the correct tracking force using the control knob. Not even close. I have to forget about floating the arm and just push the weight down until I get to 2g on my stylus force gauge. Has anyone experienced this? I have had this turntable for a few years and haven't had this problem with other carts. Any suggestions?

 

Do you have the tracking force set at zero when you're trying to float the arm with the weight?

 

I assume zero is the white dot lining up with the line on top? If so, yes.

 

DL-110 is a medium to low compliance cart, and usually favors installation on s-shaped medium-weight arms. You pairing might be a mismatch to start with, IMHO.

 

Double check that you printed out right size of protractor on your printer. I had to adjust something in printed options so it came out to scale

 

Is your stylus gauge digital? Mine is and it's made of metal and the Denon DL-110 sticks to it (magnetically), thus throwing off the VTF. I have to use the tone arm's calibration in this case.

 

My Rega tonearm has a dot on it, but it doesn't represent zero tracking force.

 

This. I bought a digital stylus gauge and had to return it because it did not work with the DL-110. I thought it was defective until I tried it with another cart. The reading was way off due to the magnetic attraction between the cart and the metal gauge plate. My Shure balance beam gauge works just fine with the DL-110, as the metal the beam is made of is non-magnetic.

 

That cart is very light. You may need heavier hardware or headshell, depending.

 

When printing, in printer Properties, you have to look if the "Fit To Page" box or similar is checked. It usually is checked. If it is, you need to UNcheck the box to print the protractors. If it is checked, the protractors print a bit smaller than they should and are worthless.

 

It should give around 10.6 Hz with an 11 gram arm.

 

Wow, I had used a dl110 on my old Rega P25, no problems at all.

 

I used a DL110 with a RB300 for about 10 years. I never found the need to use the supplied weight. Turning the dial anti-clockwise will give you zero VTF.

 

Thanks all for the help. I realized that there are number markings on the Tracking Force knob. They were nearly impossible to see but they are there. Got the arm floating and dialed in the tracking force to 1.8g tested with a digital gauge.

A few comments; my cart doesn't seem to be magnetically sticking to the digital stylus force gauge I have. I tested over and over and it seems just fine. I debated with using the plate that came with the cart for extra weight but I have noticed few people use it when mounted to Rega arms. The sound is really great as is so I think I'm going to leave it for now. I'm still a little concerned with the fact that I couldn't get either Stevenson or Baerwald protractors to work perfectly. I double checked the scales and everything is bang on. I even printed to heavy card and used a ream to get a perfect spindle hole so not sure what's going on there. I'm not noticing any distortion so I think it's ok for now.

 

Used a DL-110 for years, great cartridge.

 

Is it because you ran out of overhang adjustment? You have to go back and forth a bit, too much overhang will cause it to move off the the arc in one direction as you move toward center of record, and too little in the other direction. You rotate the platter or arc protractor to set stylus on arc at outside of record, and then see where it is on inside of record (without moving anything). It's usually pretty quick and easy unless you don't have enough adjustment range for the overhang, in which case you need to choose a different alignment or different null points.

 

I think to get an accurate Baerwald overhang with the DL-110 it looks like you'd have to push the screws to the end of the slots, if even that is far enough.

 

Digital VTF Guage to make sure tracking force is correct.

 

Hmm maybe I need to try again. I mounted the cart square in the headshell and aligned it with the x on the grid in the middle of the protractor then adjusted to get as close to each null point as possible. Best I could get was within about 0.5mm of the line on each null point and square on the centre grid. Strangely I had no problems setting Baerwald with an older protractor and a different cart but I was concerned the spindle hole wasn't perfect.

 

Glad to see that you figured out how to use the arms VTF dial. You need to set the overhang first. If you using an arc protractor, you should start by setting the cartridge square in the headshell so that the stylus will rest on the arc line. When you move the arm across the arc, it should sty on it. If not, adjust it a bit until it does. That is correct overhang. Now, go to the inner grid mark and gently rotate the cart until the cantilever is square with the marks on that grid. Then move the arm over the outer grid to verify that it is still correct there as well. You should be done. If the cart over hang was bumped a bit when you made the angle adjustment at the inner grid, you may have to readjust a few times between them t get it perfect. It should always stay on the arc line during this process and of course from thereafter once the screws are tight.
-Bill

 

On a Rega, the pivot to spindle mounting distance is 222 mm. The length to the end of the tonearm is 239 mm. Effective length for Baerwald at a mounting distance would be 239 mm. That puts the stylus at the end of the tonearm. Since the stylus is set back probably almost 2 mm from the face of the cartridge body, an accurate Baerwald overhang would cause the cartridge body to extend past the end of the tonearm by a similar dimension.

 

As others have pointed out, to achieve a Baerwald alignment on the Rega arms, the overhang is going to increase and you are likely going to have to pull the cartridge almost to the end of the headshell.

When you change the overhang, however, the offset angle must also change. The result is that, with a proper Baerwald alignment on that arm the cartridge is NOT going to sit square in the headshell. To get the cantilever aligned on both null points and follow the arc accurately the cartridge is going to have to be angled in the headshell slightly toward the spindle. Start off this way and things will run much more smoothly for you (assuming you have enough room with the slots in the headshell to achieve the necessary overhang). Trying to get a Baerwald alignment with the cartridge sitting square in the headshell will be an exercise in futility.

The Rega alignment and null points most closely resemble Stevenson. That alignment will result in the cartridge sitting more in the middle of the headshell (less overhang) with the both the overhang number being very close to Rega's AND the cartridge sitting square (or as close to square as possible) in the headshell.

 

Ok well now I'm totally confused. I managed to get as close to perfect as possible with the Baerwald protractor last night and the cart is still square in the headshell with not much overhang. Interestingly I found the Stevenson alignment almost impossible to achieve. I'm using the protractors for Rega arms from vinyl engine so I assume they are right for my table.

Here's how it sits now:

 

You know, I have a Rega arm on a non Rega table, and they used 219.5 mm pivot to spindle as I believe Baerwald did in his published papers. Might be worth a check. It can be hard to get an accurate measurement.

 

Could you post a photo looking at the side of the stylus?