Hi all, Apologies if this has been asked before, but I was hoping to get your thoughts on what you think would be best for someone new to the audiophile 'game' looking to have a proper, audiophile digital setup. I've been both a Mac and Windows user for a while now, so I am familiar with both operating systems and enjoy them both. With that being said, however, my preference is Mac - I enjoy the user interface, layout, and overall quality of Mac laptops (haven't purchased an iMac before). I've had my Macbook Pro for 6 years now, and although it has deteriorated slightly, it is still efficient and works fine. I'm looking to buy a new computer, and at the moment, have my eyes set on the new Macbook laptops set to come out at the end of 2021. Although they're yet to be confirmed, the new Macbook laptops are set to have an upgraded M1 chip (M1X or M2), better RAM, and completely new design. There is one key drawback to Macs for me personally, however, and that is it doesn't have a sufficient music player like Windows. On my PC, I currently use Foobar2000, and I absolutely love it. I love how it is perfectly customizable, easy to navigate once you get past the learning curve, and able to play FLAC files. I realise Mac has a version of Foobar, but it isn't comparable to the Windows version and don't think it ever will be given that it has been out 4 or so years with barely any update to show for it. I've tried Audirvana, Roon, Vox, JRiver, and while they are all OK to use, they don't really have much in the way in terms of customizing your library - for example, being able to change artist photos. iTunes (or Apple Music) is fine, but once again, is barely customizable and cannot play high quality audio like Foobar. For this sole reason, I am looking to buy a desktop PC, but this will be in 2022 once Windows X is launched. I realize that DACs and speakers (anything else?) will be the game changer in terms of my audiophile setup, but my question is: is it worth it buying a PC desktop (not laptop, as I find current day Windows laptops lackluster compared to M1 Macs) JUST for Foobar2000? Or, should I buy a Mac and settle with iTunes/Apple Music or the current music players available on Macs? My main intentions are to have a proper digital, audiophile setup & to rip my CDs. Any thoughts would be much appreciated! Thank you all very much.
I don't like a computer to be part of my hifi except to use a smartphone or tablet basically s a remote. I would never use a PC no matter how much better it was.
I use a Mac Mini as a dedicated music server (using Apple Music) and bitperfect app that sends unmolested digital to my Matrix Audio X-SABRE PRO MQA dac. Also use it to stream Qobuz. Use to use Tidal but got tired of the MQA bs they push. I prefer Mac OS to Windows. I have to use Windows at work and it absolutely sucks compared to Mac.
Use whichever works best for you; there is no sound quality difference. If you like foobar2000, that means Windows. Complete your profile with your associated equipment and describe how your PC and hi-fi are interconnected, and you might get more useful feedback.
Prefer Mac Air mid-2012 and JRiver here, even though I also have various Windows machines with copies of my FLAC and MP3. No playback is perfect, you can get an occasional silence or stutter using either platform, but on the Mac everything plays back with fewer problems. JRiver does almost anything you could want, once you work with it awhile. Their media server works great and I can run Foobar2000 on my phone around the house to listen. My home theater receiver sees the JRiver server also, if I want a surround experience.
Intel NUC running customized Linux (Roon Optimized Core Kit). Else, there are any number of proper music servers. Definitely figure out if you want a network player or a digital transport and a stand alone USB Dac etc. But don't play from a standard PC. And, of course, never, ever Apple.
I use a Mac Mini (2012) to run Roon (sending Tidal/Qobuz and imported files to other streamers/DACs on separate systems). (Ripping done to FLAC using an older mac mini with a CD drive that's on the network.) No use for Apple music at this point, once I discovered Tidal/Qobuz, but I still way prefer Mac over PC. I don't use the mac to play, only as a server.
Mac is better for everything in life except your wallet lol. Re the new M1 MacBooks- you owe it to yourself to buy one immediately. I just updated from a 2015 Macbook Pro, and had to make the tough decision between the M1 Pro or Air. I'm typing this on the M1 Air with absolutely no regrets. The Touch ID button alone is a revelation, you'll agree once you have it. Assuming you don't need the Pro for any professional applications, the Air is all you need.
Myself and some friends have used and compared Many computers. HP and Dell laptops, Home built PC/Windows of High end Quality. Apple MacBooks (pros), Mac mini's, Hackintoshes (home built Macs), HP laptop Hackintoshes. In no way are Any of the Windows computers, regardless of build, even close in sound quality to any Mac I've ever tried. Of the Macs, the Hackintoshes were the least in audio quality and they were all expensive, high-end parts (Ive been building hot-rod computers since 1991, I've built many many dozens of them over the years). The MacBooks (reg and Pros) are okay but not as good as an iMac. And by far the Best sounding Mac is a Mini. Specifically one with a SSD drive and a minimum of 8gb ram. A buddy tried a few tiny Linux machines and said none came close to the Apple products but were mostly better than the Windows boxes. The Macs are quietist, lowest noise-floor, largest soundstage by a noticable margin compared to anything Windows. AS far as software and sound devices? The Windows built-in sound devices are always horrible and noisy while PCI and USB devices are always better. The built-in Apple sound devices are actually rather good, very quiet. On par with USB devices up to say $300. Surprising in a way. While USB devices are obviously the best. Software for Windows has usually not been so good either. Foobar was always ok, not great. Software for Mac like iTunes not much better than Foobar. Amarra for both Mac or Windows is by far the absolute best sounding software I've ever heard and still use. Although I use Room more so which is a close second to Amarra. So I will basically use a Mac mini with Roon or Amarra via USB DAC. Doesn't get any better than that. iPads and other Tablets and phones are not so good - sorry. But all of this is common sense and should not be a surprise. Apple has always dominated the Music industry due to their superior quality. Not just the hardware but their OS as well. I can go on and on and give you a dozen personal examples from the years but I wont. But im sure that most will argue because YOU use a Windows computer with Media Player and it sounds fine. Just enjoy what you got or like, its about the music. But if you are seeking highest audio quality computer source simply use a Mac mini and Roon.
PC or MAC to act as the DAC is most certainly not Audiophile. You can only use them to get the media as in connect to streaming service (ex: Tidal) or retrieve stored music files and connect to a DAC. If you want Audiophile you need an external DAC. Spend your money on the DAC not the device that delivers and/or stores the source.
I actually found it a waste of money replacing my PCs every few years after suffering the dreaded 'blue screen of death'. Not to mention the constant struggle to fend off never-ending attacks from malware and viruses lol. My Macs on the other hand never have any virus issues (3rd-party virus programs not even required), and have exceptional resale value each time I upgrade.
I used to be a Mac user, and abandoned the platform when Apple started designing their computers to be unrepairable. My last Macbook Pro (from c. 2007) had a widely reported defect which Apple refused to acknowledge; I was able to fix it myself (for $30 in parts, compared to the $400 Apple wanted to charge me), but on subsequent models, diy repair would have been virtually impossible. For a laptop, I now use an easily-repairable Lenovo Thinkpad. I built my own silent desktop, with a giant heatsink instead of a noisy cpu fan. I believe Mac/Windows/Linux are all capable of equally good audio, if properly set up. For me, the biggest questions would be: 1) the noise level of the specific computer: cpu fans, hard drives, power supply noise, etc. 2) how easily can the computer be opened up and repaired/upgraded.
Unless you don't know what you're doing and/or are buying cheap almost disposable quality laptops, this doesn't happen. I guess the appeal of Apple is its convenience, but even then you're still overcharged for that.
Big caveat with major brand PC laptops. There are Two Dells, Two Lenovos, Two HP. There's consumer and enterprise. In laptops, the latter is superior if you must consider longevity, warranty, support, and ruggedness. I say this as PC and Mac user and owner. Other thing to report. The Mac is big in audio production and creation. In broadcast work, PC automation systems rule the roost (examples being Wide Orbit, BE AudioVault, Enco, etc).
I have used a 2012 Mac Mini for several years as a dedicated music server. It has a 500 GB hard drive and 16 GB of RAM. I purchased it new as a desktop computer and eventually replaced it with a MacBook Pro, so now it’s a dedicated music server running Roon. I don’t run the latest version of OSX as it is too much of a resource hog. I’m sure it’s below the published Roon hardware requirements. It has a small form factor and makes no noise. I have a Musical Fidelity M1DAC and a Teac UD-301 DSD capable dac. Setup of each dac as the output device for the computer took less than 5 minutes. It might have taken 10-15 minutes to figure out how to configure Roon and Audirvana. I ripped my CDs using dbpoweramp to AIFF files which reside on the Western Digital NAS which in turn connects wirelessly through a wireless router to the Mac Mini. I’ve also ripped my SACDs. Apple Music, Roon and Audirvana import AIFF files flawlessly and output to the connected dac via USB flawlessly as well. Roon and Audirvana process the DSD files flawlessly as well—DSD setup took less than 5 minutes. I use an iPad with the applicable remote apps to control the apps on the Mac Mini. Roon and Audirvana also work flawlessly with Qobuz. I’ve never had a problem with the Mac Mini. It runs 24/7. If I had to replace it, a used Mac Mini would suffice. While my hardware might not be up to the Roon Nucleus or current NUC specs I can’t imagine that a hardware upgrade would give me better operational performance given the way I use the Mac Mini / Roon / DAC setup. The mileage may vary in other implementations. I can’t speak to the sonic benefits that might be realized from any hardware upgrade. In my case, the equipment I use together with the software and NAS/Qobuz configuration is relatively inexpensive and works as it should. I can’t speak to the sonic quality of the Mac Min’s built in DAC. But I think a Mac Mini with a decent external dac running Apple Music would exceed a standard of merely acceptable. If a friend asked me for advice, I would recommend purchasing a used Mac Mini from Craigslist and a NAS and start with Apple Music and go from there. I’ve used PCs, foobar, jriver and Sonos. While all good, in my estimation they may equal, but don’t really surpass, the easy of use and front end sonics of other systems I’ve had. My amplification and speakers might be a different story, but as to a digital front end, the Mac Mini setup is the one I’ve been most satisfied with.
I made the switch from PC after resisting for many years, so I can speak from personal experience. I haven't regretted paying the 'premium' since that time, just like I don't mind paying extra for MOFI and Analogue Productions pressings. And as I mentioned, Macs have excellent resale value because not everyone is willing to pay retail price.
Was the 2015 MBP too slow to render 4K or 8K videos, hindering your productivity? Tom's Hardware: "As optical storage fades away, we believe PCs will increasingly become the center of the hi-fi listening experience. .... Anything Above $2 Buys More Features, Not Better Quality."
I still didn't find any app to replace foobar yet. Main pro-foobar arguments: asio, modified darkone skin, own tags. Normal ears can't hear diffs between pc and mac (I use a RME ADI 2 FS DAC btw).
I like using an older Mac Mini (2012) I have on hand to run Audirvana out to my DAC over usb…it disables or bypasses a lot of running processes during playback to prioritize audio…described better the I can here: Exclusive Core Player - Audirvana
~ 1998, DoD was switching over to the "Modern System," an Oracle program used in UK for personnel information systems w/integration with desktop PCs. Early trials in Korea/Alaska => any person w/access to enter a request for training, also had access to changing their salary! Oops, close the bonnet & check the tyres . . . A Mac fanboy, I was astonished that Oracle had modified the program to work on Macs, at NASA's request!
You can avoid a lot of unpleasantness by adapting for this question the famous Zen koan of photography regarding what’s the best camera? The one that’s with you.
If you are managing your own FLAC library, as opposed to using a streaming service, I recommend an app for MacOS called Swinsian. It's wonderful and allows you to fully customize tags and keep your library tidy. I run it on a iMac into which I have an external DAC plugged in.
I've had no issues with viruses or malware on my PC's over the years since installing Eset Nod 32 to take care of all that stuff. BTW...still running Windows 7 on 6 computers and laptops in my house with zero issues. You can custom build a PC that will outperform any Apple computer for half the price. I do like Apple's operating system and Linux as well but Apple's hardware components are nothing special. Currently using a dedicated laptop running Win 7 with a modified version of Foobar 2000 (Dark One) with a Cambridge Audio DacMagic 100 as my digital front end out to my vintage Spec 1/Spec 4 rack driving a pair of 1981 Cornwalls.
