Is anyone else using Stillpoints?

I've been thinking about taking the rollerball plunge.

I'm tricked out with Black Diamond cones, pucks, and shelves at the moment (with a few sets of DH cones). Does anyone have impressions on what I would expect going from BDR to Stillpoints or other similar products based on their experiences?

 

If all it takes is few ball bearing and efficient manufacturing to get the results of Stillpoints why isnt there a flood of Chinese copies??

 

Has anyone tried, and found an improvement in isolation a power amplifier from the surface it sits on? I have some sorbothane lying around and might give it a go unless its a waste of time. Its a solid state amp, Hafler P3000. I have tried this with turntables and speakers where it immediately makes sense to me. However, what about power amps? thanks.

 

Definitely worth trying imo.

 

Okay, so "5 pockets of technology per foot" times 8 comes out to $5600 plus tax. Did you even bother bringing the Ultra SS in for a demo?? I suspect you can get them for a third of the cost and since they are designed per the weight load they have to handle you shouldn't be surprised if they achieve the same results.

And the "pockets of technology" means the number of bearings--a function of the amount of weight the device is handling. Try to think through the jargon.

 

Stillpoints is far more advanced than the BDR devices, in my experience. I have had BDRs since 1997, and the differences between the two are like using a camera lens that the average consumer purchases, and, say, Canon "L" series glass, which professionals use. There's "good" and there's "phenomenal." Having said that, Stillpoints Ultra Mini Risers must be assiduously placed under components. In other words, don't expect to just drop them underneath something and think you're getting the best you can get. They're more akin to putting speakers in a room and just plopping them down anywhere. You'll get sound, but not the totality of what is possible.

 

Thanks! As an owner and frequent user of a Canon 200mm f/2.0, 500mm f/4 II, and other beauties, I love your analogy

I think I'll take the plunge...

 

I've just tried Symposium Rollerblocks Juniors and Rollerblock 2+, each a set of three. I tried them under my CD Player, DAC, Amp, Conditioner and Equaliser. All my gear sits on good racks which themselves have ball bearing type feet and cone type isolation (details of my gear are on my Profile page).

I was listening for improvements in percussion but I tried to notice general musicality.

I found the Rollerblock Juniors, used with its base and top piece with the ball bearing in between, gave the best results.

Each foot was placed connected directly to the base of the equipment as near as possible to the existing feet. I used the Rollerblock 2+ with steel plates stuck by sticky tape to the item's base. I did not try Rollerblock 2+ with it's own top piece as they are a separate purchase and nor did I try the more expensive tungsten ball bearing. The differences between the Rollerblock Junior and Rollerblock 2+ were tiny and I can't believe the extra cost of tungsten balls etc. would yield justified improvements.

CD Player - weight 25kg, sitting on it's own quite sophisticated cone type feet. I have had small improvements with Townshend isolation pods and Finite Elemente Cerabase. The Rollerblock Juniors made the most obvious change with this, but I still had to change things repeatedly and listen hard to hear it. That bit extra percussion and general better feeling with the music was definitely worth it though.

DAC - weight 25kg, same feet as CD player. Hardly any, if any change.

Amp - weight 25kg, has it's own rubber feet but I got a better sound with the Cerabase. Rollerblocks were no improvement on the Cerabase but the Cerabase added a bit of percussion and musicality compared to the rubber feet so I guess the Rollerblocks would do the same.

Conditioner - weight 8.5kg. Equaliser 2kg. Noticed no difference compared to Cerapucs I currently use.

The result is I will use the Rollerblock Juniors under my CD Player and DAC and leave the rest of the feet as they are, using Cerabase and Cerapucs. In this way I have added in a small way to percussion and musicality and as I feel the rest of my gear is here to stay, and I think I've done my best with speaker positioning, room treatment and EQ (of course I'm not kidding myself that I can't do better but there comes a point when you have to stop messing around and start listening to music), so adding the Rollerblocks are worth it. If you haven't done at least the first two, then these must be your priority. In my system, I like to think Rollerblocks are about extracting the final detail.

As I said earlier, I intend to try the Symposium Svelte shelves under my speakers and my gear. Someone with the same rack as I have said that improvements were to be had.

I also tried the Rollerblocks on my headphone/computer system. Here I got the best results. This set up has a less sophisticated rack based on cones under which I put cerabase feet. I then tried Barry Diament's 'bicycle inner tube' idea, a slightly pumped up tube being placed between two wooden shelves, and on the top one the gear sits. Doing this definitely opened out the sound - you know, more space around instruments, separation etc.. Again I found the Rollerblock Juniors with top and bottom in use superior to the Rollerblock 2+ with plates. I placed them under the computer box and the amp and both showed improvements, and doing them together was better still. I didn't try them under the DAC as this is very light weight (I could put some additional weight on the top and may try this sometime).

Overall with the headphone/computer set up, with inner tubes and Rollerblock Juniors, I got the most musical sound I've heard on my headphones. Nice!

So, under source (CD Player, computer) and amp, Rollerblocks have a subtle impact. Under the other gear (DAC, conditioner, EQ) I heard no change.

Just to add, I'm not a reviewer, I'm not vastly experienced in different types of isolation gear. I'm just trying to relay my experiences.

 

I had hoped you were right as I did not want to spend without a payback of improved sound. The difference between the Ultra5s and the Ultra SSs ,under main speakers was big enough that ,for me, made it an easy choice. I also tried the Ultra5s under subwoofers and there I heard very little difference so I went with the Ultra SSs.

 

I don't really buy into any "jargon" ever. I have been using stillpoint products for quite some time now and have never not had a change in sound. The Ultra 5 under the speakers in my room on my wooden floor are fantastic at the moment. I am still evaluating them and haven't bought them yet. The dealer will be bringing the whole Stillpoints suite over to my house soon and I will surely try the Ultra SS at that time. But for now, the Ultra 5's are mesmerizingly good under the speakers!

I already own and use their ESS rack and the LPI center weight. Works incredibly well!

 

Interesting. What speakers do you have? And what kind of floor are they on?

 

Just as a note, Music Direct has a 30-day return policy on most items. You might want to try them, as it's a no-risk situation. God love 'em, they surely don't like me putting that on a forum, as I've returned items to them and never had them refuse me.
Just make sure you turn them Ultra Minis at least 1/2 turn (they come completely screwed down tight: you're supposed to be able to slip a credit card in between the top and bottom part) and then move them around to where not only is the music clear, but the rhythms of instrumental sections is distinct from each other (I used Mercury Living Presence CDs, as they're very well recorded. I don't have to guess when it sounds the best: it's obvious). I can easily see people buying them and saying, "Well, they're not all that." Yes. They are all "that." But it took time to get it perfect, same as it does when you place ASC tube traps along the walls.
Let me know how they work for you. I'd really like to know. Are you getting the Ultra Mini Risers or the big ones? I only have the Ultra Mini and SS models. The Ultras, I've read, make the mid bass a bit leaner (I, personally, can do without that, but I understand the benefits otherwise).

 

Thanks, good point. I've bought and returned many things from Music Direct over the years, I forgot they carried that line. I'm not sure which models I'll get, but I'll probably try both the Ultra and Ultra 5 and maybe the Ultra mini. I need to re-read this thread to see if I can pull out some of the differences between those.

I'll wait until I clean up my listening room first though, which is still covered with boxes of CDs from moving in (been meaning to order some Can-Am cabinets...).

 

Shophia IIIs on a wood floor.

 

I realized I did not give you all the info asked for. They are Shophia IIIs on a carpeted wood floor with Ultra5s. The subs are JL-1300s on ultra SSs.

 

Heavy speakers. I went looking for specific information on Stillpoint efficacy relative to the model used (UltraSS, Ultra5, etc) in conjunction with loaded weight and was surprised not to find much (not to say it's not out there).

Given that you are on wood floors I'd be curious how the UltraSS would compare. One thing you find when you go looking for reviews and/or other information about the Stillpoint products is the near unanimous opinion about both system synergy and relative performance. (And when I say relative performance I mean that it is rare to find reports of system performance becoming universally enhanced by the implementation of any given product under any given component. In the odd case where I did find it I was skeptical, inclining to think of confirmation bias at work).

As I reported earlier in this thread I had put the UltraSS under speakers in three different very good systems and got dramatically differing sonic results. I'd love to do the same experiment with the Ultra 5s but it ain't going to happen unless the local (Speaker Shop) commits to becoming a dealer and bringing in the entire line, something he was loath to do in this market.

The technology certainly "works"--we have too many testimonials (including my own) to say otherwise but I guess my advice to all is to utilize every opportunity you can get in order to try whichever specific products you are thinking of putting under whichever components you desire to treat. Reason being that you can spend a lot of money in a hurry by just taking the bait and maximizing your utility of the complete product line!

ps--here's a good bit I came across: http://hifi-advice.com/Stillpoints-review-2.html

 

In my case I started with the Ultra SSs under my speakers and was thrilled with improvement. I would have been content as it was, but I had the opportunity to try the Ultra 5s and the improvement was worth it to me. You can hardly go wrong as the Ultra SSs give 60%+ of improvement the Ultra 5s give.

 

Dealer is coming today at noon with the whole Stillpoints line up. Will be a fun learning process...though so much work when getting under speakers!
Anything in particular you guys want me to try out? Apart from comparing the UltraSS to the Ultra5 under the speakers?

 

Honestly, their prices are so extraordinary that most of my questions would deal with that aspect. Treating my very simple system with the Ultra5s would run north of $10,000. I'll go out on a limb and suggest that an entry level Patek Phillipe watch is far more expensive (and complicated) to manufacture than a dozen+ Ultra5s.

 

Paul Wakeen (president of Stillpoints) advises to leave a small gap approximately the thickness of a credit card between Ultra SS and Ultra 5s when attached to speakers or units when replacing existing feet with Stillpoints and adaptors. The Ultra SSs should also be loosened slightly at end with cap. This also gives you some room to level units. The Ultra 5s are locked and cannot be adjusted. This maybe old hat to you, but I mention it because it DOES matter.

 

Its been a nice long learning experience. Still ongoing....I will post about it later

Still working on this stuff right now:

 

^ Wow, a Chord dac. This must have been a fairly recent development.

 

Hey, its the QBD76HDSD. I've had it for sometime now...fun to play well recorded DSD material.

Also, now have the Ultra SS under the speakers. Dealer left the WHOLE stillpoints case with all the ultra 5, Ultra SS, Ultra Minis, Base plates etc. for me to play around with.

Here are the Ultra SS under the speakers now:

 

I see you are using the ultra bases with the ultra SSs under your speaker. Are you or have you tried them without the bases? In the previous picture where you had the ultra 5s under speakers without bases it appears they are attached to speakers with adaptors. Have you tried it the same way with the ultra SSs ?

 

Marc, I am planning to do two different things soon as well. Remove the Ultra bases and use the plain ultra SS. Also use the Ultra 5 WITH the ultra bases and see what happens there.

So far, I am actually liking the darker and more tonally fuller sound of the Ultra SS with the base under the speakers compared to the Ultra 5 without the bases. Wife likes the Ultra 5 under the speakers sonically and visually, however, is not too fond of the price. Neither am I...but these new stillpoints are not tweaks from what I am hearing now. They are as significant as a component in terms of the change in sonics. Bloody unbelievable stuff.

All I know is I'm about to get poorer by the time all this is over....whether I choose to get poor now, or wait a bit and get poorer later