Is it just me or Led Zeppelin (or rather half of the band) were simply bad too many times LIVE? *

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by DLeet, Jun 9, 2014.

  1. John Fell

    John Fell Forum Survivor

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    Undisclosed
    Other than Hi Ho Silver Lining which he hated, Beck's plan wasn't to release hit singles otherwise he wouldn't keep releasing instrumental music. Part of his career, he seemed to be more interested in building his hot rods. In addition, Beck seems to become easily bored and was always changing musicians and styles. All his earlier albums except Rough & Ready from 1969-77 were certified Gold or Platinum, not to mention winning numerous Grammy Awards.
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2018
  2. Overthehillsandfaraway

    Overthehillsandfaraway Forum Resident

    Location:
    London
    The sad thing is, most vocalists worth their salt would walk over broken glass to record with a legend like Page yet it never happens.
     
  3. Terrapin Station

    Terrapin Station Forum Resident

    Location:
    NYC Man
    I don't know if Jeff Beck even wanted to be more commercially successful than he's been. I kind of suspect that he's very happy with the way things have turned out. He seems to be the kind of guy who mostly doesn't want to be bothered too much. I can't imagine he would have been happy with the press wanting to follow his every move or anything like that.

    So it's not really a problem, but it seems to me that the reason that Beck wasn't bigger than he was is a combination of taking so many left turns stylistically and being relatively sporadic. That made it difficult to build a bigger audience. The stylistic changes alienated a lot of people except for the more open-minded, hard core fans, and the sporadicness caused people to be distracted by other stuff and forget about Beck between releases if they weren't huge fans.
     
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  4. John Fell

    John Fell Forum Survivor

    Location:
    Undisclosed
    Yes, I mentioned in another post that he seemed to be content working on his hot rods during part of his career rather than recording and touring. I also mentioned that he was constantly changing styles and musicians in his bands as well so I agree.

    However, I also mentioned that all of his solo albums except Rough & Ready from Truth through Live With The Jan Hammer Group were certified as either Gold or Platinum.

    He also supposedly has quite a few unreleased albums in the vaults.
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2018
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  5. Captain Leo

    Captain Leo Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Queens, New York
    I have to be one of the only people who loves the sloppy, raw feel of the 1980 shows. Zep's sloppiness live is part of their charm for me.
     
  6. rebetis

    rebetis Well-Known Member

    Location:
    quebec
    I'm kinda new here so I'm slowing reading through threads that interest me but not chiming in often. I've only read the first 5 pages of this thread and the last 3 just to see where the conversation was going (will read the rest later).

    I'm not a musician so all the "music talk" goes over my head; for ex, I don't understand what a "drum fill" is but I know what I like.

    Like many here I have not seen Zep live but have heard/seen recordings and I agree that earlier in their career they were great but later not so much (for me).

    I have seen over 100 concerts "in person-live" in my life so I understand that being there is the ultimate ruch, true experience compared to a recording. However, I don't think dismissing a persons opinion because he has not seen them in person.

    Case in point for me, my top 3 bands : KISS, Iron Maiden and Alice Cooper.

    I've seen KISS/Maiden over 20 times and Cooper about 15.

    I have not seen KISS/Cooper in the 70s and maiden first show was 87/88 thereabouts.

    The recordings that I have seen/ heard from 70s KISS blows away all the concerts I have seen of them in person from the 80s/90s .
    on a smaller scale I can say the same for early Maiden vs what I experienced live even though I loved them.

    Strangely, I prefer newer Cooper to his early concerts (first time I saw him was Poison era).

    I think you can judge a band on a recording without having seen them in person only because, for me, my experiences prove it so...
     
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  7. Randoms

    Randoms Aerie Faerie Nonsense

    Location:
    UK
    @DLeet I've read a fair bit of this post, and played a number of tracks from The Song Remains The Same and Houses Of The Holy, more than any time in the last couple of years; so thank you!

    I haven't read every post, and you may well know this, or someone probably has pointed this out, but, the music from the Blu-ray is different from the original VHS and DVD, which are also different from the original LP. Apart from the remastered sound, at times the performances and edits are from different nights - and some of the edits make the playing seem more sloppy than it was, as the music has to fit the film.

    Obviously some of the patches and edits, corrected the odd bum note.

    The 2007 gives you a longer Dazed And Confused, which at 29 minutes plus, would have been too long for the LP. The real downside is you lost some really tasteful playing from the shorter version of No Quarter.

    I respect your opinion, though I personally prefer TSRTS version of No Quarter, and apart from the different pitch and slower tempo, can't really hear anything on the live version that's radically different, vocal wise to the studio version, apart from the extreme vocal effect. In the digital age, this could be reproduced, if wanted, far easier than back in 1973.

    Jimmy's playing is so sensitive and dynamic on TSRTS.

    Whichever version of No Quarter, or other Zeppelin classics we may prefer, and with The Song Remains The Same, we are spoilt for choice, happy listening.
     
  8. This Heat

    This Heat Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago, IL
    I love the 80s shows especially "Whole Lotta Love"
     
  9. J_D__

    J_D__ Forum Resident

    Location:
    Mooresville, NC
    I don't mind mistakes if an artist try's to stretch themselves and go into uncharted territory.
     
  10. steveharris

    steveharris Forum Resident

    Location:
    Mass
    Kind of like an artists`sketch pad.
     
  11. ohnothimagen

    ohnothimagen https://soundcloud.com/porkchops-productions

    Some of the 1980 shows aren't bad for what they are, as long as you lower yer expectations a little bit IMO. Don't approach the 1980 tour expecting performances of the caliber of HTWWW, or even The Song Remains The Same. When the '80 tour is good, though, it's really good, but when it's bad it's really bad. Dave Lewis -Zeppelin fan/archivist extraordinaire- wrote a good book on the 1980 tour, Feather In The Wind. Well worth reading, because he doesn't pull any punches when it comes to the performances.
     
  12. BDC

    BDC Forum Resident

    Location:
    Tacoma
    Glad to hear that, I have that book waiting in the wings.......in my backlog..
    I like some of 80, but the SB's to me don't sound very good. Sound like the needles are in the red on Page a lot..Too bad Mike Millard didn't record some 80.....
     
  13. DLeet

    DLeet Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Chernigov, Ukraine
    I have listened finally to HTWWW. Yes, it's great from start to finish. They only lost me during some more meandering improv on Dazed. But Bonzo's soloing is always a joy to listen to. I don't know how much doctoring went into this release, but the sound is phenomenal indeed. Powerful as I don't know what. I am retracting my statement at the very start of the thread that Plant never pulled of aaaaahs at the start of Immigrant Song. :agree: So, I have to favorite releases now - Albert Hall and West.

    Actually, another one I've enjoyed quite a bit was Knebworth. They may not be all top notch here, but the set list cannot be beaten with In the Evening, Achilles, and Kashmir.
     
  14. Frittenköter

    Frittenköter Forum Resident

    Location:
    Germany
    Here's what Eddie Edwards (Led Zeppelin Bootleg Expert and responsible for The Garden Tapes, which analyzes the numerous overdubs, edits and pro-tools fixes done to the official live releases) has to say about the Immigrant Song from HTWWW:


    --------------------------------------


    This is essentially from Long Beach, but Pagey has worked his magic on the vocals. The bootlegs reveal that Robert couldn't quite reach the western shore that night, but on the official release he gets there with no problems at all!

    What Jimmy has done is to take some sections of the vocal track from the LA recording and transplant them into the Long Beach mix. For example, Robert hits the high E on "western shore" on the first LA chorus, but not on the second LA chorus or either of the Long Beach choruses. So, those words from the first LA chorus have been used in both choruses on the official release.

    Although there are other substitutions, it seems that they have been kept to the minimum necessary. In the second chorus, for instance, the slightly unusual straight rhythm of the words "Our only goal will be the..." reveals that these are from the genuine Long Beach recording, whereas "...western shore" immediately afterwards has been substituted.

    Some, if not all, of the battle cry screams are fixed up in a similar way, either by using screams from LA or by duplicating the more successful Long Beach screams.

    --------------------------------------

    As others have said, there are versions from 1970 where he nails the song 100%, but to my knowledge none of the 1971-1973 versions are flawless (and in the case of the handful of 1973 performances, oh boy, let's just say there is a good reason the song was dropped).
     
  15. ohnothimagen

    ohnothimagen https://soundcloud.com/porkchops-productions

    Some of the 1980 audience tapes aren't bad. Gimme the Berlin audience tape over the soundboard any day, for example.
    If you liked Knebworth, try get a hold of the Knebworth "warm up" gigs, Copenhagen, July 23/24 1979- same setlists as Knebworth, but much more relaxed performances. Imagine Zeppelin doing an 'intimate club gig' in 1979, that's Copenhagen.
     
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  16. DLeet

    DLeet Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Chernigov, Ukraine
    I've read that two performances of the same song were combined, but didn't know to which extent. Anyway, it's ok. Some doctoring is allowed. I don't mind that Taylor rerecorded most of the vocals for Live at Rainbow '74, or that RHCP did some fixes for Slane Castle. It's all good. It is very rare that a band can play an entire concert and not screw up not a single time.

    Immigrant Song sounds great on West. I had goose bumps.

    An irrelevant question: who sings baking on Bron Yr Aur Stomp. Bonzo? I ask because the two vocalists seem to alternate. Plant sings first verse higher, and second verse lower. Gotta be Bonzo, right? I doubt the other two could sing so well. Page only did once in studio and I've seen that Jones was doing backing vocals for Vultures...
     
  17. Mook

    Mook Forum Resident

    It's Bonham, you can see him singing backing vocals (& playing the castanets) on DVD.
     
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  18. Frittenköter

    Frittenköter Forum Resident

    Location:
    Germany
    at least, unlike Peter Gabriel they used vintage overdubs. Sadly, they also pitch-corrected the vocals in lots of places on Rainbow.
     
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  19. BDC

    BDC Forum Resident

    Location:
    Tacoma
    I have it all, 80-Stevenage/Knebworth and Copenhagen warm ups...I do like them..Better than Knebworth..I probably don't have every source from 80, but I at least have all the gigs, and a rehearsal that I can't remember if it was pre over Europe tour or US 80 that never happened. So many Zeppelin gigs to hear. I've had everything downloaded for so long and honestly have only listened to a fraction in it's entirety. I stopped downloading for the most part a couple years ago, so I haven't got a couple of the newer released soundboards. I did listen to the recent released 3-21-75 soundboard on You tube in it's entirety recently. I've had the audience tapes for a few years. A friend of mine's dad actually recorded the 73 and 75 Seattle aud recordings. You likely know his name.. I just told him to tell his dad thanks for preserving history. He's getting older and doesn't want to be bothered, but a legendary taper.

    More often than not I go for the early stuff with Zeppelin boots... Really prefer the early strong voice Plant, and Pages Hiwatt sound..
     
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  20. ohnothimagen

    ohnothimagen https://soundcloud.com/porkchops-productions

    Ever heard John Paul Jones singing the Sandy Denny parts in "Battle Of Evermore" from the '77 tour? Fair warning: once heard, it can't be unheard!:laugh:
    I know who you mean, can't remember his name at the moment, but he is indeed a legendary taper! If he also taped the Stones in Seattle in '75, he gets a big thank you from me as well:righton:
     
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  21. Terrapin Station

    Terrapin Station Forum Resident

    Location:
    NYC Man
    I have no problem with Jones' singing on that tune. He's obviously not trying to sing the part just like Sandy Denny. He's doing his own take on it.

    Of course, I'm someone who likes Lou Reed's singing, too.
     
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  22. yarbles

    yarbles Too sick to pray

    Location:
    Darkhan
    Yes, heard them all. Not a pleasant experience, but often found myself sniggering at the similarity between JPJ's voice and that of my least favourite singer of all time: Ian Anderson :doh:
     
  23. yarbles

    yarbles Too sick to pray

    Location:
    Darkhan
    Just out of curiosity, how many 'bad' LZ shows did you actually attend? Don't need the precise number, to the nearest 10 will be fine. Take your time now.
     
  24. BDC

    BDC Forum Resident

    Location:
    Tacoma
    Pages pentatonic minor was usually a hybrid scale with major/Aeolian notes thrown in. I can't think of anything where he plays straight pentatonic minor.
     
  25. Tim1954

    Tim1954 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Cincinnati, OH
    Natural Minor (Aeolian) and Harmonic Minor have Melodic Minor as their core, which was accounted for in my comment.
     

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