Is it just me or Led Zeppelin (or rather half of the band) were simply bad too many times LIVE? *

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by DLeet, Jun 9, 2014.

  1. HotelYorba101

    HotelYorba101 Forum Resident

    As well as Dorian thrown in there at times, and mixolydian, depending on the key and chords. Cannot forget that natural 6! :)
    Jeff Carlson likes this.
  2. Dodoz

    Dodoz Forum Resident

    Funny, the first Zep bootleg I ever heard was from the 1980 tour (Frankfurt - incomplete version on one CD, first half of the show). I was 11 and didn't even know some of this material in its studio incarnation!
    Anyway, I always liked the show, and I think it's thought of as "one of the good ones" from this tour. It's funny that the 1980 was my first reference point.
    ohnothimagen likes this.
  3. Jeff Carlson

    Jeff Carlson Forum Resident

    Not that I doubt that much what you're saying, but Pete is pretty well known for not liking the music of Led Zeppelin. I know it can be hard to remember sources for this type info, and this is not intended to be calling you out. Can you give any context or source, if not fine.
  4. Pseudonym

    Pseudonym Forum Resident

    Detroit, MI

    "I haven't liked a single thing that they've done. I hate the fact that I'm ever even slightly compared to them. I've just never, ever liked them."
    —Pete Townshend on Led Zeppelin
  5. eddiel

    eddiel Forum Resident

    Toronto, Canada
    Yeah about the only nice thing he had to say about them was toward JPJs bass sound on some recording. Otherwise, it's been mostly complaints.
  6. Jeff Carlson

    Jeff Carlson Forum Resident

    You make great points here, and there are the somewhat similarities in Rod and Roberts voice.
    If Terry Reid had been the singer more differences would show. Beck went off the Cream template in many ways. A bit remiss not mentioning that.

    Nothing on Truth sounds like "Good time bad times", and Page had a pretty clever little arpeggio hammer on lick there, which is original as far as I know. "Babe" is a pretty large departure as well.
    That starts off the album. Page was pretty tasteful on some of the other tracks where he borrowed and stole. The production of the 2 albums sounds nothing alike. Beck is/was a better guitar player, but was/is no producer, Page was a sneaky guy on the business side, Led wallet.
    jay.dee likes this.
  7. DLeet

    DLeet Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Chernigov, Ukraine
    None. I was born in 1991. And? I still can hear them via the wonders of modern technology.

    I will grant you that being there elevates experience to a whole 'nother level. I can see that via that concert when Queen performed with Lambert for the first time. I was blown away standing at the stage and thought that the stand in is better than Paul Rodgers, but... after hearing the soundboard (which, granted, was not done very well, for a TV channel), I immediately heard all the warts and all.

    Why would I judge Zeps you might ask. Well, 'cause I've heard countless live recordings by Yes, which were not tinkered with to death or purified, and they still sound grand. Pink Floyd sounded great, last live from Gilmour release was flawless. So when Zeps are compared to some other bands live - they rarely look good or better. In studio, however, hardly anyone could ever reach them and Page's producing skills. Studio albums is why, again I'll repeat, Zeps are band No. 3 for me of all time. After The Beatles and Yes.
  8. Terrapin Station

    Terrapin Station Forum Resident

    NYC Man
    I'm not sure what that means. What does it mean to have a different scale/pitch set "as the core"?
  9. J. Umbari

    J. Umbari Forum Resident

  10. Rockstar2112

    Rockstar2112 Active Member

    Pete reminded the audience to "remember what Led Zeppelin did to you tonight" lol so Zep's performance must have had an impact on him.
  11. Mook

    Mook Well-Known Member

    From memory The Who & Led Zeppelin only shared the same bill once, in 1969.
  12. Rockstar2112

    Rockstar2112 Active Member

    One time is all it took!!
    Mook likes this.

    SKATTERBRANE Forum Resident

    Tucson, AZ
    A Led Zeppelin concert in Minneapolis in 1975 was one of only two concerts I ever walked out on. I dammit, I could have sold the tickets that my brother and I had in the parking lot before the concert for 4 times what I paid for them! The other was The Eurhythmics because I had suffered through their opening act albeit comfortably in my paid reserved seat, when The Eurhythmics came out and ENCOURAGED everyone to get up and DANCE! (I like to be able to sit in the seat I paid for and see the act without a bunch of partying a$$-holes standing up in front of me all night).

    Ooh, I just remembered, I also walked out on Tegan and Sara. They had just changed their sound from a Indie/folky sound to a LOUD, obnoxious rock sound. They were so loud I doubt The Who would have put up with it. They were too loud standing OUTSIDE the venue!
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2018 at 11:13 AM
  14. PacificOceanBlue

    PacificOceanBlue Forum Resident

    The Southwest
    What was it that caused you to leave? I know a guy who went to one of the Led Zeppelin shows at the LA Forum in June 1977 who thought it was a terribly long, plodding show - although he did not walk out (I know another guy who went to the LA Forum shows and loved it, so it just depends....).
  15. Tim1954

    Tim1954 Forum Resident

    Cincinnati, OH
    It means I don't think it necessary on a general music forum to get into every variation of a scale Page ever played, where he worked out he could inject a flatted 6th here or 7th there, etc.

    The point is that in terms of improvisation, comparisons to Clapton are entirely appropriate, IMO. Whereas comparisons to, say, Kenny Burrell probably wouldn't make sense.

    Natural Minor and Harmonic Minor stem from Melodic Minor. Think of it in the same way that there are variations on the Major scale. :)
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2018 at 1:02 PM
  16. OnTheRoad

    OnTheRoad Forum Resident

    Back mostly in the 2000s I collected, on cdr for the most part, over 300 of Led Zeppelin's live shows etc....

    You'd think I would say something totally supportive but really.....MOST of them sound fairly crappy overall...performance wise, not to mention some of the fidelity. I agree about Bonham and Jones being solid nearly all the time and Jimmy being at least interesting to excellento much of the time but poor Robert. More often than not his wavering vocals bring down the band.

    Now....the early shows..up into 1972 are generally great, to me. Even most of the spring '73 shows in Europe are great instrumentally and good to very good vocally. But by May and the US tour they were very hit and miss....again...mostly Robert's vocals. Jimmy started getting a tad rough around the edges...and in '75 he was half and half, while Robert's voice was 75% trashed..and only a few '77 shows are worthy to me...and '79-'80 were a bit better but still.....

    Having said all that....Some of my favorite all time recordings/performances are of Led Zeppelin in their first couple of years. Topnotch....right up there with any rock band IMO.

    Oh...and I saw them live at age 12 in Newport, RI July 6, 1969 and age 14 in Honolulu Sept. 17, 1971. I even remember those shows...'71 being clearer in my mind. Both fantastic shows !!!
    prognastycator likes this.
  17. Terry

    Terry Forum Resident

    Remind me to never attend a concert with you.
  18. 131east23

    131east23 Forum Resident

    Gorgeous. After growing up a rock 'n roller I started exploring Bluegrass and Folk in my 30's and there were times when you would go to a small show and these guys were on stage with their acoustic instruments and you just knew that this was how it was intended to be.
    Terrapin Station likes this.
  19. zen

    zen Forum Resident

    Well, apparently, it's not just the thread starter, DLeet.

    I've enjoyed a Zepp bootleg or three (i.e. Blueberry Hill) but usually they're a bit clunky and sloppy in concert. JPJ held in together. A musicians perspective that goes back decades.

  20. Terrapin Station

    Terrapin Station Forum Resident

    NYC Man
    You could think of all scales as a variation of any particular scale if you wanted to. "Melodic minor? That's just dorian with a raised 7th!" Or "Dorian? That's just melodic minor with a lowered 7th!" Etc.
  21. Tim1954

    Tim1954 Forum Resident

    Cincinnati, OH
    If you think my statement that Page mostly improvised in minor pentatonic with melodic minor doesn't go into enough detail, then feel free to elaborate. Heck, get into modal analysis and list every one which Jimmy Page ever used during an improvisation if you wish. There are probably about five of the seven modes involved, so go to town. :shrug:

    I believe that Page and Clapton are very much comparable as blues rock improvisers despite using a somewhat different vocabulary. And the point of you running the thread over with this need for further differention eludes me. Over and out on this.
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2018 at 5:58 PM
  22. Terrapin Station

    Terrapin Station Forum Resident

    NYC Man
    I thought I was just saying something about scales/modes and their relations to each other. :shrug:
  23. clarkydaz

    clarkydaz Active Member

    i agree with this. My thoughts are in this early period they are playing more as a unit all the time bouncing ideas off each other. Later on it comes across as Bonham and JPJ take a back seat for Page to go on extended solos.
  24. HotelYorba101

    HotelYorba101 Forum Resident

    Not to get too too off topic, but I believe it is the inverse, no? That the Harmonic Minor is actually an offshoot of Natural Minor, created for the natural seventh scale degree to give the tonal push from the major third of the V chord to the tonic - same with melodic minor, which was because singers at that time were not so much into the whole augmented second interval
  25. J_D__

    J_D__ Forum Resident

    Moorseville, NC
    Im surprised Good Times, Bad Times wasn't played live more often.
    jay.dee likes this.

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