Is it really necessary to remove tonearm when installing cartridge?

Many thanks in advance for any suggestions and advice on the below.

I own an older model Linn Sondek LP12 with an Ekos arm, with an older Linn cartridge. I will be (1) installing a new Lyra Delos cartridge, and (2) comparing the Linn with the new cartridge to an SME 15 with Series V arm with the same Lyra Delos cartridge. Both will then have the same newer cartridge, so it will be a valid comparison, side by side, of the turntables and tonearms. In the event the SME combination is superior, I will buy that table and arm and then transfer the new Lyra Delos to that when it arrives. If the SME combination is not audibly superior, then I will keep the Linn LP12 and have a new cartridge.

My question concerns the installation of the cartridge — on both my older Linn Ekos, and by a dealer on a new SME V. As you probably know, Linn insists that the Ekos arm must be removed from the table to install and tighten a cartridge. Failure to do so, Linn warns, will damage the bearings of the tonearm if the cartridge is tightened on the arm with the arm mounted on the table. I own a Linn setup jig, and am willing to follow those instructions — if they are really necessary — for the installation of the cartridge. (I’m doing this myself because the only Linn dealer is a considerable distance from my home and the SME/Lyra dealer is closer. In addition, Linn dealers normally sell only Linn cartridges, and I have no reason to believe that the equivalent Linn cartridge is clearly superior in order to justify two long trips to both drop off the table and then retrieve it from the Linn dealer.)

Two questions:

(1) Is it really necessary to remove the Linn arm from the Linn table in order to install a cartridge, which is a bit of a time consuming procedure?

(2) My local SME dealer has never heard of such a thing, and says that he never removes an SME arm from the SME turntable when installing a cartridge, and has never done it on any other tonearm or turntable, for that matter. But logic would suggest that if it is necessary for the bearings on a Linn Ekos arm, wouldn’t the same procedure be necessary for any other tonearm? Any expensive tonearm should have delicate bearings, and would not be any different from a Linn arm in that respect.

So shouldn’t the same procedure be followed with any expensive tonearm? If it is really necessary and prudent to remove the Linn arm from the table when installing a cartridge, isn’t it also prudent to insist that any expensive tonearm be removed from a table by a dealer, when installing a cartridge?

On the other hand, if removing the tonearm is not necessary in the case of the SME or other expensive tonearm/turntable combinations, why is the Linn different in that respect?

Any comments and advice would be greatly appreciated!

 

If a turntable arm needs to be removed to change the cart, that seems like a bad design (imo). I have always just taken the headshell off the arm (unlock the "collar") and switched out the cart,
put the headshell with new cart back on the arm, make final adjustment to the azimuth, and done. Easy.

 

I never remove the arm when I install a new cartridge.
However, it seems that these are specific instructions from Linn applied specifically to the Ekos arm.
If I were you, I would follow the instructions to the letter just to be safe.

 

Hmm. I've certainly never heard of anything like that. Isn't that Linn a conventional gimbal bearing arm? I'd be stunned if there's any chance you can damage the bearings by tightening the cartridge screws. What exactly are the Linn instructions? Wouldn't you have to check and fine tune the alignment with the cartridge mounted and loosen and tighten the screws anyway? Or is the jig supposed to produce perfect alignment without an in situ check?

 

I would not remove tone arm. No reason why a cartridge cannot be installed with tone arm in place. Just do not force anything.

 

Your dealer is correct. No need to remove the tonearm. Just be sure to not torque against the arm bearings when tightening the cartridge screws. That's standard procedure with any gimbal arm. A uni-pivot arm is a different animal and is harder to adjust in situ, but even that needs to be done in lace for final adjustments to be verified. The warning from Linn was probably to keep ham fisted types away from the thing and to support their dealer's efforts. If you can install a cartridge safely on another arm however, no need to worry more about the Linn arm.
-Bill

 

Its a few minutes work to remove arm.much and much easier to align
Linn do insist on this.
I remove the Sme arm on the Thorens TD150 and on mt 401
Safer in regard to not breaking the cartridge tags

 

It is not necessary to remove the arm, if you know what you are doing. The problem is that there is no way for the manufacturer to control how the cartridge is installed, and there will be many buyers who will exert too much force on the arm which could damage the bearing. That is why removal is recommended.

 

1) With a fixed-heashell arm it actually is easier and safer to remove the arm in order to mount a new cartridge. I own the SME V (and other SMEs), I swapped cartridges on it and I know what I'm saying. @Thorensman is a wise guy. Your dealer is wrong. Ask @Chris Schoen , @chervokas , @allied333 and @KT88 if they ever had to swap cartridges on an SME V, probably not. Don't trust people's recommendations if those are based on experience on a basic Rega arm. On the SME you have to align the cartridge to a small section of the arm's end, which is much easier to do with your arm free on your working desktop. It's not like mounting cartridges on a Technics headshell.

Again, it is actually easier than what you do expect to exert excessive stress on the arm's bearings when mounting a new cartridge if the arm is in place. The precision of the SME V bearings is what makes it a reference arm, mind you. Remove the arm, please. Otherwise, you are just 4 screws away from an optimal operation environment, and it just doesn't make sense.

2) There is a 99.999% chance that the SME setup will outperform hands down any Linn esoterik gimnik kostly kombo. Mount the Lyra on the SME V, mount the SME V on the SME 15. Listen with your ears and I bet you will never think again about the old LP12.

 

Linn have always recommended removing the arm before installing the cartridge. I always thought it was to avoid damaging the springs in the LP12 rather than the arm bearings and I've always followed the manufacturers instructions for that reason. For me the move to the SME series V put an end to all that. Lock the arm securely and work away, like every other product that Alastair Robertson-Aikman ever produced it's an absolute honey.

 

I disagree. You are not the only fellow that has installed and aligned cartridges on multiple SME arms here. I have as well and I don't find it necessary to remove the entire arm. In any case, the question was about the Linn arm. He can have his dealer install the cartridge on the new SME if he likes. No risk there.
-Bill

 

I never remove the Tonearm, the less a Tonearm is touched then that will lessen any damage to the arm, However my biggest gripe is why don't cartridge manufacturers tap the lugs of there cartridge so that no nut is required?

 

Aren't we talking about mounting a cart on an Linn Ekos, not an SME? I'd love to see a statistic of the number of Linn gimbal bearings damaged by cartridge mounting screw tightening with the arm in place.

 

From the OP: "Linn insists that the Ekos arm must be removed from the table to install and tighten a cartridge. Failure to do so, Linn warns, will damage the bearings of the tonearm if the cartridge is tightened on the arm with the arm mounted on the table"

Why you don't trust the builder itself?

 

I do. That's why I asked about the specfic instructions i was curious about them.and about the specifics of the jig in being able to get the alignmemt right with an in situ adjustment. I also know that sometimes a manufacturer gives an aggressively worded instruction to avoid potential liability claums.

 

Removing the arm from its base was solely due to potential bearing damage on such high precision bearings as the Ittok (when this advice was first mentioned) or Ekos. It makes sense, as, at the time, people were using Allen screws and torqueing the screws up way too tight. It's actually not that hard to remove the arm, even for me.

 

Many thanks to all of you for the excellent and insightful comments and advice!

At the outset, I'll admit that I have never aligned a cartridge on the Ekos myself, because the Ultra Top Secret nature of Linn dealers makes it impossible to even observe. I have asked three different Linn dealers if I could watch the installation of a cartridge (and thus the removal of the arm) and they all flatly refused. Ditto with upgrades to the table itself. It always caused me to wonder if the Linn dealers actually go to the trouble to remove the arm when installing a cartridge. At least one of them was quite unscrupulous so I always wondered.

But the point made above sounds logical to me. How do you align any cartridge, on either the Linn Ekos, or the SME Series V, if the arm is not on the table itself? But maybe I'm missing something here, as I have never done it.

I actually own a Linn setup jig that I have never used. I don't disagree with the comments about following the manufacturer's instructions, even though I will have to assume that what applies to one high quality arm should apply to the next, thus my question about both the Linn and the SME.

In any case, there are some videos on You Tube that show the installation process, and I have the full manual and the actual setup jig. So I will give it a shot prior to visiting the SME dealer. The final installation will be at the SME dealer, as I won't drive a considerable distance to have to drop off the Linn LP12 and then drive all the way back to pick it up. I basically told a Linn dealer that I would not drive there twice, and when he was adamant that I couldn't just stay there and watch, I cut the conversation short and decided it is a new SME or keep the old Linn table with a Lyra Delos. That Linn dealer lost a sale of a potential upgrade and a Linn cartridge.

By the way, the old Archiv has wires directly attached to the cartridge and they appear to plug directly into pins on the Ekos itself. So I guess male to male leads will be necessary to get the odd Linn setup to work with any modern cartridge, as they all have the pins on the cartridge and not on the arm? It will be a tight fit. . . .

Correct. If I buy the SME the table and the Series V arm will be new. My dealer will be happy to do whatever I request to get the sale. So the Lyra Delos can be installed on the Series V first, before the arm is mounted on the table. That does again pose the question above, about how does a dealer do the final alignment with the arm off of the table, before tightening the cartridge?

But this time I will watch the entire process, starting with taking the new table and arm out the box. Either that, or no sale. The local SME dealer is a class act and a great dealer, so that will not be an issue, unlike the closest Linn dealer.

As explained in my original post, I will be comparing a Linn table that last received any upgrades 20 years ago. So the comparison will be of a 20 year old Linn LP12/Ekos with a new Lyra Delos, to a new SME 15/Series V, also with a new Lyra Delos. I will be comparing the two tables side by side, through the same electronics and speakers. So it will be a completely valid comparison.

Will I be able to hear a clear difference in 15 to 3o minutes of listening? Or is the difference incredibly subtle? If a clear difference, I will buy the SME. If extremely subtle, I will keep the Linn with the new Lyra Delos.

If the difference is quite clear, what should I listen for? Do any of you recommend specific albums and tracks to best illustrate that difference at the dealer?

I should add that the price of upgrades to a Linn are exorbitant. If I upgraded my old Linn to current Linn standards, it would come close to the price of a new SME. Well, the SME 15/Series V might cost more, but not that much more. Which also made the potential decision easy.

P.S. On the subject of Linn, check out their web site, for their new top of the line phono preamp. Except that that it is not a phono preamp at all. It is a DAC -- yes a DIGITAL converter -- and is installed INSIDE the Linn Sondek LP12. It is ironic that Linn, who marketed one of the first high end analog tables 40 years ago, is now marketing a DAC as their top of the line option, to be installed inside the table itself. Linn still sells analog phono preamps, but their new top of the line is the DAC. Which, by the way, only works with other Linn components.

 

Other arms are aligned by sliding the cartridge in the headshell. SME arms are different, the cartridge has a fixed position in the headshell and the alignment is obtained shifting the whole arm on its base.

Use records you know very well. Dynamical contrast, detail and speed of transients should be improved. I bet it can be heard immediately, it should however sound really fresh and alive. Hope so.

 

Many thanks. Two more questions about SME, which I have not previously used.

(1) How difficult is it to take an SME arm off of the SME 15? Removing the arm on a Linn is time consuming, since the bottom of the table must be removed, and the arm must be removed from the underside. In any case, at least for a new arm, table and cartridge, I can ask my dealer to install the cartridge first.

(2) I believe that the adjustment to move the arm is part of the arm itself in the form of a dial or screw? The arm itself is not moved on the armband itself, is it?

Many thanks!

 

A lot of newer cartridges have threaded taps for mounting without the need of nuts. This started happening about 10 years ago.

 

(1) Easy. a) stylus guard on, arm in clamp, unplug the DIN connector. b) unlock the arm base by releasing two bolts. c) slide the base forward and remove 2 allen screws which connect the base to the table. d) slide the base backwards and remove the remaining 2 screws. e) you can take the arm away. All tools are provided with the arm, it takes 3-4 minutes and you don't need to move the turntable or even touch it.

(2) The base comprises two slideways, secured to the table with 4 allen screws, and between them the actual arm base can slide, and a special key is provided to adjust its position with ease and precision. Eventually, the base is locked in place between the slideways by tightening 2 bolts.

You're welcome!

 

We are talking about tightening a phono cartridge and NOT a head bolt, crankshaft bolt or lug nut correct?

I mean how much force do you use to tighten a cart? I use a small jewelers screwdriver set and when called for a hex driver. I put very little torque on the screws, just enough to make sure the cart can't move and Linn says this small force will destroy ball bearings which are hardened steel or the race in which the balls sit?

I never removed the arm when installing a cart on a fixed headshell arm and I put on the leads before mounting the cart to make it easier and vice versa when removing a cart.

 

I use a torque controlled screwdriver. 0.4 Nm or 3.5 in-lbs. This is all the torque you need and it's not a lot.

 

Which specific torque controlled screwdriver do you use for this purpose? Can you provide a link from Amazon? Many thanks!

 

I always removed Ittok and Ekos when properly tightening cartridge bolts: as did every Linn dealer I know - with a Linn jig it only takes a few minutes. Like many dealers, I have performed this in front of the customer on numerous occasions.

Sadly over the years, I've encountered notchy arm bearings from various manufacturers from poor installation, and several cartridges you could move by hand where washers and inappropriate bolts have been used.

@Emosewa here is a link to part of a pdf download for Linn LP12 setting up procedure, written by an existing, extremely competent and long serving Linn dealer. I suggest downloading and reading all of them. Peter is hardly being secretive!

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&s...FjAAegQIARAB&usg=AOvVaw2-mq0Z3yAyNSq1BPP6JhAZ

Download it and jump to page 27 to read if you should remove the tonearm!

Even if you do not own a Linn, it is a very interesting read, and some parts are applicable to many makes of turntable and arms.

All I will add is that I took my Ekos off when tightening my cartridge.