Is it "Unseemly" to Negotiate With a Dealer?

Discussion in 'Marketplace Discussions' started by Barnabas Collins, Jun 2, 2017.

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  1. Dillydipper

    Dillydipper Space-Age luddite

    Location:
    Central PA
    Haggling is a way of telling your merchant that you don't respect his business practices. He chose to sell an item at such-and-such, as did the distributor who got the merchant to order it. Now, either you're telling the dealer you don't feel he deserves the profit he is asking for, or you are just one of those people who cannot enjoy a product unless you feel you got a better price for it than other people. Either trait does not make you look good, nor does it give a dealer any reason to bargain with you next time.

    And if there's a problem with the item, or it requires service after the sale...good luck in getting any respect, or extra courtesy or favors, from the guy you bought it from!

    When you reach for that extra discount, you are ruining this guy's day, and maybe he's gonna have to "pay that forward" to his next customer. Or, your next purchase.
     
  2. Diskhound

    Diskhound Forum Resident

    Location:
    Canada
    This just sounds so wrong to me on so many levels. I haggle whenever I can. This is my hard earned money we are talking about here!
     
  3. Dillydipper

    Dillydipper Space-Age luddite

    Location:
    Central PA
    Here is a thing. I own that thing. Here's what I'm willing to sell the thing for.

    Now, you can tell me what you're willing to pay for the thing.
    But, you can't tell me what I'm willing to sell the thing for.

    Oh, you can ASK me if I'm willing to sell you the thing I own for the price you thing you want to buy it for.
    You are betting that I want to hold onto this thing less than I want to accept what you tell me my thing is worth.
    You are betting, you can make me believe that you know more than I do about what the thing I have - and you apparently want - than I do.

    Well, I can thank you for stopping in today, and hold out until somebody comes along who really wants my thing.
    Because I'm betting that, for everybody who prides themself on deciding what a thing costs, there's another person who trusts me.
    Because if I have the thing, I probably know a little bit about these things. Who knows, I may even be making my living knowing about, pricing, and selling these things.

    People who come into my place of business, where I make my living, and tell me they know how much my own thing is worth, are really making it hard for me to make a living on these things.
    I am betting that, it's worth more to me to make a satisfying transaction with people who respect what I have, what I do, and what I know about it. I am also betting that, I'd much rather have a customer base of these people, than opportunists who aren't doing me any good trying to make a balance between a profit, and a value, so I can continue offering the thing to people who want it.

    This is not a negotiation, it's a battle for dominance, just like the arrogant guy with the controlling handshake, his greeting masquerading as a courtesy.

    I'm not really in the business of guys lining up in my door, telling me my assessment of my thing isn't nearly as important as them getting a better deal off of me.

    That's what the price tag is for. And if I'm going to sell you the thing, you are mistaken, sir. This is MY hard-earned money we are talking about here.
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2017
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  4. kwadguy

    kwadguy Senior Member

    Location:
    Cambridge, MA
    If you just did a $14k cash purchase at list with no haggling, the dealer just cleared AT LEAST $3-4k, maybe more.

    If at the end you asked for delivery and set-up and the dealer couldn't be bothered, I would have walked out with no qualms.

    If you're going to run a Tiffany operation you had better offer Tiffany service.

    Otherwise, I am 100% sure you could have found a dealer closer to home in MA willing to eat the 6.25% sales tax and deliver/ set them up for you.
     
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  5. Diskhound

    Diskhound Forum Resident

    Location:
    Canada
    Well. I don't necessarily disagree. I am someone who supports his local sellers, rarely buying on line. At the end of the day though, it's a competitive marketplace with sellers trying to max their profit and buyers trying to get the best prices. When a no haggle policy is coupled with reasonable and discounted prices everyone can be a winner.
     
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  6. rebellovw

    rebellovw Forum Resident

    Location:
    hell
    I think you did well - you demo'd the speakers for a long period of time - and heard them compared with others - and immediately wrote a check. You "may" of over paid but you did a good think by buying at a small shop and supporting their business.

    Definitely go back to buy something else at a later time and then try to get a good deal - I'm sure you will be getting something else as a result of this purchase.
     
    bru87tr likes this.
  7. H8SLKC

    H8SLKC Forum Resident

    Location:
    Boston, MA
    NO, the deal is not done. First, delivery is not complete right? Also, the store has a return policy yes? Why are you settling here? Call the shop, tell them you've reconsidered and intend not to finish the transaction. If the speakers are delivered, return them. Why the hand wringing here? Get the best deal you can. When they ask why you're returning the speakers, tell them something about not liking the sound, but make it clear that the real reason is that they failed you as the customer. Seriously, in this Internet retail age, any brick and mortar shop that fails to make you feel like a king, when spending 14K for a very-discretionary purchase, likely deserves to go out of business.

    Oh, and dillydipper, if you are in fact a retailer, how in the heck do you stay in business? You make amazon look better and better!
     
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  8. Dillydipper

    Dillydipper Space-Age luddite

    Location:
    Central PA
    I think it's more reasonable to dicker over used objects than new merchandise. In this case, the current owner may be putting unrealistic expectations of what he's due for this item, based on his regretting what he may have paid for it, or his hope to get past his own purchase by putting some of the financial burden on his buyer.

    I have a friend who delights in the Tao of the Open Box. If he and his wife have a weekend free, he'll tell her, "C'mon Hon, we're going to our Summer House for the weekend"...and what he means is, they are going to scour every Best Buy and computer store on the way within detour's range...and maybe a Salvation Army location or two, if he can get her to fall for it. And when he gets home, he's going to sort out who he's going to give - ! - these treasures to. Mom gets that replacement cartridge. Bro gets a new WiFi router. And, Hon? Well, Hon gets to tell everybody how HE spent HER weekend. And all he gets out of it, is the endorphin rush. I'm glad they share these moments, and really do enjoy the hunt somewhat, but I could not put up with it.

    Anybody seen The Fixer yet, starring Richard Gere? He plays a nebbish's nebbish, combing the feifdoms of NYC, looking for people he can do favors for...and turning these relationships into openings to do favors for even more people. Gere plays it almost psychosomatic, almost desperately shilling, buttonholing and dealing, as if making connections for others is his very oxygen (spoiler alert - I ain't far off). Just like his relationships, the first half of the movie is a very uncomfortable character study of somebody you really don't want to get left alone at a party with; but after you've exasperated yourself with this character as much as the rest of his connections are - the movie wraps up with an almost Coen-Brothers-esque grace. It's one of those movies I came out of saying, "wow, surprizingly a great movie", knowing full well I have NO interest in putting myself through it again.

    And see, that's how I feel about people who put their business community through the sort of rigors because they're not in it for the same reason the shopkeeper is. Or even the same ethics.
     
  9. Whoopycat

    Whoopycat Forum Resident

    Location:
    Des Moines
    Not to speak for dealers who have already responded, but if I'm a hifi dealer and somebody drops 14 large in my store, I'm thinking about what I need to do so that he comes back to buy a $5k amplifier, a $3k turntable, and whatever else I may happen to carry. Charging $150 for halfway delivery is not sending a message of "let's do business again soon".
     
    turnersmemo, bru87tr, Dave and 2 others like this.
  10. kwadguy

    kwadguy Senior Member

    Location:
    Cambridge, MA
    In a previous job, I had a position where I had to negotiate all the time. And here's the thing: The people you're negotiating with are people you develop a trust relationship with, and/or who will have to maintain or support what you're buying.
    .
    Now, in this position, I knew almost exactly what the people on the other side of the table had paid, and I knew their extra costs. I knew the number I could give them and the number that most of them would have to accept because they needed the business I could send their way. They needed it enough that they'd accept a hot poker up the backend if they had to. But what I would do is figure out that number, and then add to it enough that the deal made some financial sense for them. And because of that, when something went wrong, or we needed support, we got it. I never paid their original offer price, but they all liked us because they knew they'd get a deal that made some sense.

    I have a friend who had a similar position, and who would always insert the knife totally in until it hit bone. And then, when the other side had reluctantly agreed to a deal that barely made any sense, he'd push just a little harder at signing just because he could. He did that at work. He also did it with contractors who worked on his home, the car he bought, etc. And you know what? When things went wrong and he needed service, not one of those people would ever rush to help him. He pushed too hard just to say he had.

    But the reality here is this: You can ask what you want. I can offer what I want. The ideal price is one that makes me feel I got a good deal, but where the seller doesn't feel reamed. There's a fair median.
     
    turnersmemo likes this.
  11. qwerty

    qwerty A resident of the SH_Forums.

    I'm not wealthy (certainly not able to drop any where near $14K on a luxury item). So getting some money off a large purchase does mean something to me. I will politely ask if they can do better on the price. Generally I will be offered a token amount off the price, so I will politely reply "can you do any better" (or something "can you also throw in free delivery"). I won't push it any further, and I won't argue with the retailer. I will either accept the offer or if it is really beyond what I can afford I will politely walk away. I don't want to cause ill-will, as I may return to the store at a later date to make a purchase, and I would like to have a good relationship which may get me a good price. I understand that retailers need to make a profit, and it's getting harder with online competition.
     
  12. No Static

    No Static Gain Rider

    Location:
    Heart of Dixie
    After reading some of these replies I'm glad I'm not in retail anymore.
     
    Lorraine likes this.
  13. spaulding

    spaulding Hoi Polloi

    Location:
    The Windy City
    That money is spent -
    but next time take a moment and ask what they can do for you.
    If they want to make a sale, they'll do what they can.
     
    bru87tr likes this.
  14. Vinyl Addict

    Vinyl Addict Forum Resident

    Location:
    MA

    Not if he saved the receipt.:righton:
     
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  15. rodentdog

    rodentdog Senior Member

    I have been in sales for over 40 years. The happiest customers I have had are the ones who paid full price. The customers who tried to grind the price down to the nub were the ones who invariably had some sort of "issue" or "problem" or "whatever".
    It is fine to ask for a discount, it is your money. It is also fine for the seller not to give a discount.
    I agree that it is in poor taste to demo/take up time/compare products at a brick and mortar store and then go purchase the same item online at generally not that much of a lower price. I have friends who have done this and actually think a little less of them because of that.
    Profit is not a dirty word. You can't service your customers if you aren't in business anymore.
     
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  16. royzak2000

    royzak2000 Senior Member

    Location:
    London,England
    People still use checks?
     
  17. rebellovw

    rebellovw Forum Resident

    Location:
    hell
    [​IMG]
     
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  18. vinylbuff

    vinylbuff Forum Resident

    Location:
    North Port Florida

    If you think you made a mistake, you should have called them, canceled the purchase, and put a stop payment on your check. In most states you have a minimum of 3 to 5 days to cancel a purchase. A stop payment fee is a lot less than 14K worth of regret.
     
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  19. Pastafarian

    Pastafarian Forum Resident

    Whilst I wouldn't cross this dealers threshold again, I'm not sure I'd be cancelling any cheque. Presumably you still want to purchase the speakers, you took up their time with the dem and how much can use save via another seller. The thing I find surprising is that you've bought from them before. If you buy from a distance seller any problems with the speakers would be harder to resolve, I'd probably bite the bullet if they're still not willing to drive out and install.
     
    bru87tr likes this.
  20. Diskhound

    Diskhound Forum Resident

    Location:
    Canada
    Customer: "Boy, I really like this item. I am interested in buying it but it's a lot of money. Is there anything you can do for me? I am prepared to pay you by cheque right now."

    Salesperson: "No. In fact, I have been in sales for over 40 years and I can tell you from my experience that you will be happier if you buy at full price."

    Customer: "Really? I'm just not feeling it. Isn't there even a small discount if l pay by cheque and you don't have to pay the credit card fees? Won't you even deliver it for free?"

    Salesperson. "You need to remember, based on my 40 years of experience, you will be happier if you just forget about all of this discount business and buy this item at full price plus shipping. Trust me."

    Customer: "Thank you for your time. Have a nice day."
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2017
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  21. Barnabas Collins

    Barnabas Collins Senior Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    NH
    I don't think anything would scream "drug deal" quite like having $14,000 in cash in a sack on the passenger side seat! Imagine if anything happened to my vehicle on the way to the dealership and I'm trying to tell a cop "no really officer, it's for speakers". I'm not sure they would believe me.

    At any rate, it's now a done deal. I finally have my new speakers (Focal Sopra 2's) and got them set up in my room yesterday. It wasn't fun, but it's finally over! Yesterday, was another PITA kind of day dealing with this company. After driving an hour and fifteen minutes to the location that I was to meet the delivery driver, the time AND place of their choosing, I got a call from the driver telling me he was going to be 45 minutes to an hour late! Then, during that time while I sat in the parking lot looking like a dunce, he called me two or three other times because he got lost. I was able to redirect him even though I was unfamiliar with the area and we crammed both of the massive boxes into my SUV.

    Despite the fact that I feel that I should have tried to do a little better and I still think they should have delivered them for free, I'm very, very satisfied with the speakers. There were a couple other things that I experienced during the transaction that I haven't mentioned here which made me uncomfortable but I guess I won't get into them. Suffice it to say that I don't want to burn bridges with the dealership in case I need them if the speakers ever need maintenance. But I won't be buying anything else from them in the future. I'm going to try to forget the whole thing and just enjoy these gorgeous sounding speakers. I couldn't be happier with these beauties. :)
     
  22. Pastafarian

    Pastafarian Forum Resident

    I want to keep my place in the old world
    Keep my place in the arcane.
    OMG can hardly remember what a cheque is, surely you can now do a drug deal using your Visa?
     
  23. Whoopycat

    Whoopycat Forum Resident

    Location:
    Des Moines
    The B-side of this hit single is "a business activity that is not profitable is not necessarily worthless".

    The price of the speakers is one matter, but think of the goodwill generated if the dealer had simply said, "look, we normally deliver up to an hour away for $150, but in this case we'll come to your house." Or if they had said, "sorry, it was inexcusable to keep you waiting in your car for 2 hours. We'll refund the $150."

    Anyway, to the OP, enjoy your new speakers! If they're everything you want them to be you won't regret paying full price. You'll just think twice the next time you need to visit a dealer. ;)
     
  24. Prophetzong

    Prophetzong Forum Resident

    Location:
    NE WISC
    Your good if you can afford $14,000. Consider the dealers extra profit a tip. Leave the haggling to us regular folks. :D
     
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  25. Prophetzong

    Prophetzong Forum Resident

    Location:
    NE WISC
    If you don't like to haggle that's your business. I love haggling and getting a little extra off. It never hurts to ask. The audio dealer knows your going to likely haggle on higher priced items. I think that any merchant doesn't respect you as a customer if they are insulted by someone negotiating on a big ticket item.
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2017
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