Is John Lennon's "Walls and Bridges" Underrated?

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by The Scarecrow, Feb 16, 2014.

  1. teag

    teag Forum Resident

    Location:
    Colorado
    Yeah, singing those complicated lyrics at the same time. And maybe even chewing gum too!
     
  2. rockledge

    rockledge Forum Resident

    Location:
    right here
    Very well said.

    The same can happen in huge venues, only worse. Backing vocals , even on the best monitors with insane power to them and plenty of headroom, are normally back in the mix some. Given the size of Wings those monitors were carrying a lot of info back to the stage. And some venues, no matter how good the PA gear, are just simply nightmares acoustically.
     
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  3. beatleroadie

    beatleroadie Forum Resident

    Horses for courses, I guess. I've always felt that "How" was John at his most MOR and sappy. The fact that he decries Paul for making "muzak" but then the very next song after that is very much "muzak" to MY ears is funny.

    You know life can be long
    And you got to be so strong
    And the world is so tough
    Sometimes I feel I've had enough

    Just seems like lazy (for Lennon) and slightly cliche lyrics. "How" makes "The Long and Winding Road" sound like a gut-wrenching blues song by comparison. IMHO.
     
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  4. thrivingonariff

    thrivingonariff Forum Resident

    Location:
    US
    Point taken, but then Yoko's musical efforts were fundamentally incompatible with John's music; Linda's more limited musical efforts were not incompatible with Paul's music. Yoko may have been a good influence on certain aspects of John's life, but she was not a good influence on his musical life.
     
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  5. thrivingonariff

    thrivingonariff Forum Resident

    Location:
    US
    That would be "In My Life". "How" has emotional depth, something that may be obscured by the pretty melody and vocals.
     
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  6. Chuckee

    Chuckee Forum Resident

    Location:
    Upstate, NY, USA
    At least she pretty much wasn't on 5 of his solo LPs. With the John & Yoko LPs you should know what you're getting. I do wish they kept their LPs separate like they did much of the time, even if she was recording hers at the same time.
     
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  7. Chuckee

    Chuckee Forum Resident

    Location:
    Upstate, NY, USA
    I like both of them, if that's allowed.
     
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  8. beatleroadie

    beatleroadie Forum Resident

    BAHAHAHA. Emotional depth? Clearly John is writing by numbers. He says love is something he's never had in "How." So, he's never received love from Yoko? Half his songs are paeans to her and their love.

    "In My Life" is a classic and incredibly mature song for a 25 yr old.
     
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  9. vamborules

    vamborules Forum Resident

    Location:
    CT
    "How can I give love when I just don't know how to give?" is pretty deep and definitely far from clichéd. I can't really think of another song that says something like that.

    The lyrics in that song are great.
     
  10. thrivingonariff

    thrivingonariff Forum Resident

    Location:
    US
    Oh, OK. Obviously, I just got the whole thing backwards. As for your point that "Clearly John is writing by numbers. He says love is something he's never had in "How." So, he's never received love from Yoko?", John is referring to his life prior to Yoko. Not unusual for songwriters to record autobiographical songs that are based on previous stages of their lives. "In My Life" is a mature song for a 25-year-old, but that doesn't change the fact that I think that, from an artistic standpoint, the lyrics are only a couple of notches above the sentiments found in a Hallmark card.
     
  11. teag

    teag Forum Resident

    Location:
    Colorado
    Obviously you work for Hallmark…...
     
  12. rockledge

    rockledge Forum Resident

    Location:
    right here

    I don't think fairness is even an issue. It seems that most just view the situation for what it was, including the simple fact of the huge difference between the way Mr McCartney and Mr Lennon managed their solo careers.

    As I said earlier, I think McCartney was on top of it, he managed his solo career quite well including protecting his public image, which included the publics' perception of his wifes involvement in the music.
    McCartney always seemed to be up front with the public about the situation as well, and never promoted Mrs. McCartney beyond her abilities. He didn't start calling himself "Paul Eastman McCartney", didn't name Wings "The Wooden Eastman Band" and spoke for himself at interviews.
    And he was obviously smart enough to realize the limits of his wifes abilities, I don't remember her doing bizarre and embarrassing things either on stage or on tape. And certainly didn't try to portray her as some artistic giant that she obviously was not.
     
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  13. teag

    teag Forum Resident

    Location:
    Colorado
    You are correct. Paul took the corporate approach. Image first, art 2nd.
     
  14. DrBeatle

    DrBeatle The Rock and Roll Chemist

    Location:
    Midwest via Boston
    :rolleyes:
     
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  15. andy75

    andy75 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Sweden
    I think ''POB'', ''Imagine'' & ''Mind Games'' are stronger albums overall. IMO ''Walls and Bridges'' has two really weak songs, ''Beef Jerky'' and ''Ya-Ya''. I love everything else on it! ''#9 Dream'' is one of the most beautiful songs ever written.
     
  16. Lightworker

    Lightworker Forum Resident

    Location:
    Deep Texas
    Miles better than Imagine. So good that I still want to play it occasionally (unlike most of Lennon's solo catalog).
     
  17. leeroy jenkins

    leeroy jenkins Forum Resident

    Location:
    The United States
    I don't think teag likes McCartney much. :laugh:
     
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  18. rockledge

    rockledge Forum Resident

    Location:
    right here
    Hardly. The guy was just always smart enough to realize that making sure you protect your image is a huge part of the art.
    Especially back then, when if an artist wanted others to hear his work, he had to be connected to media outlets that would get it to the public, and prior to the internet that couldn't be done without corporate involvement.
    He is obviously the most creative member of the Beatles and always put the art first. But he protected its' future, which, that in itself is an art. David Bowie was also an expert at self marketing, his biggest talent was self promotion, the guy was a genius at getting and keeping public interest.
    ALL artists, no matter who they are, if you have heard of them and they don't live in your neighborhood, take the corporate approach. The absurd "brooding artist who wouldn't dare whore himself out" notion is an apparition that in itself is a marketing and image creating ploy. Any artist using that presumption is doing so as a self marketing ploy.
    NOBODY was more commercial than John Lennon, who would jump in front of any camera available or at the chance to spout off into a microphone. All that "hippie loving peace freak" image was no doubt carefully developed and quite marketable.
    Art for the sake of self entertainment is one thing, and as long as nothing is done to get it heard that is all it is.
    But the minute it gets shared , particularly for money, there is indeed another incentive to create it.
    Image is a consideration for all of them. For the true artist it isn't necessarily first, but it certainly rates. And whether it is first or not doesn't detract from their creativity. Sometimes the financial freedom it brings them frees them up to pursue creativity.
     
  19. leeroy jenkins

    leeroy jenkins Forum Resident

    Location:
    The United States
    My favorite era of Lennon is '68 - '71. I have to think that Yoko influenced that burst of great music.
     
  20. teag

    teag Forum Resident

    Location:
    Colorado
    I do believe thou protest too much....
     
  21. beatleroadie

    beatleroadie Forum Resident

    Ok well, that's fine. I'll listen to "In My Life" and you can listen to "How?" I'm happy with my decision. Peace to you!
     
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  22. thrivingonariff

    thrivingonariff Forum Resident

    Location:
    US
    I agree that she influenced him on a personal level during that period of great music (assuming that we're excluding the experimental stuff) and that that personal influence found its way into his music. I was, however, thinking of the period from '72 onward, when her role became more than that of an influence on the personal level.
     
  23. beatleroadie

    beatleroadie Forum Resident

    Speaking of Yoko influence, "Bless You" is clearly about Yoko. Are there any other blatant references to her on Walls and Bridges?

    John says "Everybody's got a bag" and "I know you know about the Emperor's clothes" in "What You Got" which seem to be references to their bagism thing and their naked stunt.

    I've always wondered if this line in "Nobody Loves You" was about her:

    "I've shown you everything, I've got nothing to hide. And still you ask me, do I love you? What it is, what it is. All I can tell you is, it's all showbiz."

    So...is he saying their love/marriage is just "showbiz" as in, it's all just for show at that point?
     
  24. gramfan

    gramfan Forum Resident

    Location:
    gainesville,ga,usa
    What does "I am only learning to tell the trees from wood" mean?..Its either really deep or flippant....
     
  25. kt66brooklyn

    kt66brooklyn Senior Member

    Location:
    brooklyn, ny
    One of my earliest and most vivid childhood memories was of being taken by my parents to see an art installation by the artist Red Grooms in lower Manhattan, NYC (my first subway ride!). You entered the exhibit hall through real subway turnstiles to walk through a three dimensional artistic representation of NYC called Ruckus Manhattan. It was brilliant stuff and I was hooked for life.

    Almost 20 years later, in the early 90's, I saw a fresh exhibit of the works, in a somewhat less accommodating space, but with the creativity of the original fully in tact. While walking through, a tune popped into my head. I remembered it as a tune I liked from the radio in 1975 around the time of the first exhibit. I couldn't recall much more about the song, but I knew I had to find it. Soon after, I made a trip to Tower Records, hummed the part of the tune I could recall and a sales clerk handed me a CD of The John Lennon Collection. The tune? #9 Dream.
     

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