Is Liz Phair one of Rock's Greatest Living Tragedies?

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by I333I, Mar 1, 2013.

  1. chervokas

    chervokas Senior Member

    See to me the highlight of Exile is "Divorce Song," a really adult, scene-setting and heart-breakingly emotional empathetic moving relationship song. And I think she continued to write with that kind of eye and ear on songs like "Support System" and "Whip Smart" and "Only Son" and "Table for One" and even "Somebody's Miracle," and even a song like "Rock Me." It never seemed to me, "HWC" aside like she was recycling Guyville but just writing her way. But she was saddled with these images of indie blowjob queen turned pop sellout and I think the songs just got buried.
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2015
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  2. Chris Bernhardt

    Chris Bernhardt Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago IL
    There is no tragedy to the story . She's alive, she made some money, one of her works would be considered one of the artistic accomplishments of 90's music, she made good/ bad albums after that, she choose to raise a kid, and all the decisions were hers. I'm guessing she's happy. At the end of the day thats all that matters.
     
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  3. That's the way I saw it all the way back when her first album was released.
     
  4. SoundAdvice

    SoundAdvice Senior Member

    Location:
    Vancouver
    Only 2,500 copies of that EP exist and most of it is not on youtube. Download version that came with the S/T stopped working a couple years after it was released. I've spent a decade looking for that EP and have been outbid for it on ebay at least 5 times.

    When she toured from 2003-2011, why were nearly all of the quality songs released post WCSE almost completely ignored at her shows? Even after she was dropped from Capitol her set list only included Why Can't I, Extraordinary, White Hot Come and then only 2 boring songs from Funstyle.
     
  5. Mogens

    Mogens Forum Resident

    Location:
    Green Bay, Wis.
    And David Bowie was a space alien? Bruce Springsteen was a teen runaway? Bob Dylan was an Okie? The only thing strange about Liz Phair is that anyone expected her to be her songs. Playing with persona is as old as 19th century romanticism.
     
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  6. Sean Murdock

    Sean Murdock Forum Intruder

    Location:
    Bergenfield, NJ
    I finally scored one on eBay a year or two ago -- sorry if it was one of the times you were trying to get it! -- but don't give up! It's a great EP and well worth hunting down.
     
  7. Wow, those are some contortions you're pulling there to try and rationalize a failed sellout move.

    Anyway. Who cares if she's been striking poses all along? Bob Dylan managed to wring a career out of being an "authentic" poseur, and anyone who takes fiction seriously knows that not speaking from directly from experience doesn't prevent one from hitting on truths or relating meaningful things with the ring of experience. So whether or not you are "authentic", if you once came off as honest and direct (first couple of albums) and later came off as hackneyed and false (self-titled album), there's no problem in people who responded to the earlier material calling you out.
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2015
  8. Squealy

    Squealy Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    Vancouver
    And the downloads were whooshy low-quality mp3s as well...
     
  9. Sean Murdock

    Sean Murdock Forum Intruder

    Location:
    Bergenfield, NJ
    Very true -- that's why the official physical EP is well worth seeking out...
     
  10. fallbreaks

    fallbreaks Forum Resident


    ....Liz?
     
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  11. Holerbot6000

    Holerbot6000 Forum Resident

    Location:
    California
    Man if I was liz I wouldn't touch this thread with a ten foot pole. It's troll city in here...
     
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  12. Squealy

    Squealy Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    Vancouver
    Doesn't Liz have a song called "Ten Foot Pole"?

    (I doubt you will think that's funny but maybe somebody will)
     
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  13. Wondering

    Wondering Well-Known Member

    I own all of her music.
    I did not say they sound similar. You SAID I did.

    CD-"Liz Phair" "Liz Phair" 2003.
    Listen again, if you do not get the humor.
    Many of the songs are her laughing at the image that everyone thought she was in the beginning and then older as a mom.
    When I first got that album, I read about how she was a "sell out", but I think many did not get the humor of it.
     
  14. Wondering

    Wondering Well-Known Member

    If you hate her so much, and just want to bash her, why are you here replying to a thread about her?
    We get it, you do not like her. Move on to something more your style:laugh:
     
  15. I333I

    I333I Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Ventura
    I'm sorry, but the lady herself said that she was going for the money after Whip-Smart was released and it didn't do well for her.
    A little revisionist history going on with you and Liz?
    If she was indeed poking fun on that album, it's because she knew that she blew it.
     
  16. aseriesofsneaks

    aseriesofsneaks Forum Resident

    Location:
    St. Catharines, ON
    I'm sorry, but this is what strikes me as revisionist history. First of all, Whip-Smart hardly "didn't do well for her"; until the self-titled album, it was her highest charting release. It was also her first with a hit single ("Supernova") and was certified gold before Exile was.

    As someone who ran a Liz fan site and mailing list for many years and has read countless interviews and articles about her, I don't recall any prior to the self-titled album where she made money seem like a motivating factor. Most of the Whip-Smart-era press focused on the "rock and roll star is born/next big thing" angle, a la her Rolling Stone cover story; the whitechocolatespaceegg-era features were mostly marriage/motherhood/Lilith Fair themed.
     
  17. drbryant

    drbryant Senior Member

    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA
    I saw this thread again, and was just thinking - what was the album after S/T? It has completely faded from my memory. I think that's kind of the way it is with releases that disorient a core fan base without creating a new one (Peter Frampton's I'm in You, McCartney's Broad Street) - it's hard to remember what came next because you stop paying attention.
     
  18. PMC7027

    PMC7027 Forum Hall Of Fame

    Is the serial number of the "Come And Get It" EP Capitol DPRO 7087 6 18435 2 1? I have a copy of it. Is it valuable?
     
  19. aseriesofsneaks

    aseriesofsneaks Forum Resident

    Location:
    St. Catharines, ON
    That is the correct catalog number. I'm not sure exactly how valuable is, but I imagine it would be somewhat valuable, as a lot of fans seem to be looking for copies of it.
     
  20. I333I

    I333I Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Ventura
    Well, I'm not lying. I distinctly remember reading an interview post Whip-Smart and pre-Chocolate. It makes sense since her next album was distributed by Capitol, no?
    And btw, you're just adding to my point that she seemed to be doing okay during her Matador years, but she wasn't happy. She wanted mainstream success.
    I don't really care if you doubt my memory. I know what I read. It was the reason that I was apprehensive when Chocolate was released.
     
  21. krock2009

    krock2009 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Philadelphia, PA
    She also refused to tour behind Whip-Smart, other than TV appearances. She was tremendously self-sabotaging.
     
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  22. SoundAdvice

    SoundAdvice Senior Member

    Location:
    Vancouver
    Joke was on her as she lost a good 90% of her fan base about a decade ago and there hasn't been much of a reason to be interested in new work.

    I can take the 2003 album at face value and enjoy 2/3rds of it. her label may have forced her release that album with those songs/production/mastering but she's done little if anything to disown Matrix stuff since.
     
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  23. intv7

    intv7 Senior Member

    Location:
    Boston, MA, USA
    Sorry my comment wasn't as "original" as the incredibly insightful "Liz Phair sold out" rhetoric I've been reading for 12 years. :laugh:

    My point has nothing to do with whether or not it worked for her. The point is, no one should expect an artist to work for peanuts. She was a single mom with a young kid at the time, and if you were in her shoes, I'd be willing to bet you'd take the chance and try to have a hit record. I know you'll say you would stay true to your ideals, and blah blah blah...but whatever. You can say that until you're blue in the face...

    ...but NO ONE EVER FED THEIR KIDS ON RAVING PITCHFORK REVIEWS.
     
  24. SoundAdvice

    SoundAdvice Senior Member

    Location:
    Vancouver
    Wasn't there a $400,000 Capitol advance around Whip smart? The WS and WCSE promo likely never recouped for her. 2003-4 may have only seen money for her from touring.
     
  25. intv7

    intv7 Senior Member

    Location:
    Boston, MA, USA
    Isn't that pretty much what happens with every act who's been around for decades?

    When the Stones tour, the crowd isn't there to hear stuff from A Bigger Bang, or Bridges To Babylon. They want the early stuff from when they fell in love with the band. Sure, they'll throw in a "You Got Me Rockin'" or "Out Of Control" at their shows -- but the audience at large doesn't care. When they hit the opening riff of "Satisfaction", the crowd goes nuts.
     

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