I've decided not to run my masterings through an HDCD converter..

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Steve Hoffman, Apr 3, 2011.

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  1. MikeyH

    MikeyH Stamper King

    Location:
    Berkeley, CA
    In addition to all that, it has to be said that HDCD is just an encoding hack to get a bit more resolution out of the original 14/16 bit data on redbook CD without breaking anything. It's time is done.

    Most processing is 'non transparent' and so more power to AF for removing unnecessary steps in the mastering. We get the improvements. (if we want them that is.. can't say I've bought an AF for a while)
     
  2. Sckott

    Sckott Hand Tighten Only.

    Location:
    South Plymouth, Ma
    Natural forms of mastering need to be touted more often rather than adding gimmicks to a redbook CD.

    Glad Steve is going for "simple and successful".
     
    George P likes this.
  3. warren

    warren Forum Resident

    Location:
    Phoenix, AZ
    That's a good tenet. And welcome back!
     
  4. I always thought that HDCD didn't fit with the spirit of Audio Fidelity CD releases.
     
  5. Quidsane

    Quidsane Forum Resident

    Every player that Oppo produced/produces decodes HDCD.:righton:

    ...and the name of that software is?:wave:
     
  6. Gary

    Gary Nauga Gort! Staff

    Location:
    Toronto
    I guess that's why they've always sounded great to me! Did the "peak extension" feature mean the CDs were bright on non HDCD players? I have some (non AF) discs, like The Doors and Oldfield that sounded fine on my HDCD player but not so good on my non HDCD player.

    I thought it was okay - getting 20 bits instead of 16 - but if Steve is not using it anymore, that's that! Fini!
     
  7. Mal

    Mal Phorum Physicist

    I never understood why AF titles used HDCD. Didn't Steve say that it was transparent on those gold discs though? Something like "undecoded it still sounds correct" or something like that? Never made sense to me - as if messing with the LSB doesn't matter :confused:

    The only AF gold I have is Pet Sounds and I never felt it quite had whatever it is the DCC has...

    Anyway, HDCD is a royal pain in the a$$ if you ask me. Having to run stuff like the entire Beach Boys Capitol catalogue through HDCD.exe to get 24-bit wav files that are much quieter than the 16-bit ones so there's no easy way to compare them in order to be able to tell if all the effort was worth it :nyah:

    Give me regular 16/44.1 any day! :agree:
     
  8. warren

    warren Forum Resident

    Location:
    Phoenix, AZ
    More and more I'm wondering if people who thought the new AFs were too bright (remember that thread?) were just experiencing non-HDCD encoding. And I'm starting to wonder if I'm wrong to have assumed that my old CD player and laptop didn't do HDCD decoding. Maybe they did! Or maybe I didn't hear the difference as much as those with higher-end equipment. Oh well.

    FWIW, I think the only AFs I have are Pet Sounds and Pretenders, so don't think I'm judging based on any other discs.
     
  9. Gary

    Gary Nauga Gort! Staff

    Location:
    Toronto
    Hmmm, dunno. I've never noticed a "bright" AF disc before.

    :shrug:
     
    George P likes this.
  10. I find neither one of them bright, nor any of the others and I have them all.
     
  11. ubsman

    ubsman Active Member

    Location:
    Utah
    That, and cardboard.
     
  12. Grant

    Grant Life is a rock, but the radio rolled me!

    Same here! HDCD is the one thing that caused me to shy away from more than one AF CD.

    I think maybe Steve and/or AF are a bit taken aback over the overwhelmingly positive reaction to this news. It's an old technology that hardly anyone uses anymore, and it is a royal pain in the ***!
     
  13. warren

    warren Forum Resident

    Location:
    Phoenix, AZ
    Sorry, Gary, I read "Doors" in your post and thought you meant AF discs, even though you clearly posted that you were talking about non-AF discs that sounded not-so-good in non-HDCD playback.
     
  14. Gary

    Gary Nauga Gort! Staff

    Location:
    Toronto
    :laugh:

    No problem......... :)
     
  15. Gary

    Gary Nauga Gort! Staff

    Location:
    Toronto
    I don't know what you mean by a pain in the *** but maybe you're talking about transferring it to your computer. :)

    You'll note that this is a decision by Steve, not AF. Kevin will still be using the HDCD set up. No problem as far as I'm concerned - they still sound - and will continue to sound - great to me! :righton:
     
  16. IIRC "Pretenders" wasn't HDCD encoded to begin with.
     
  17. alfeizar

    alfeizar Active Member

    Location:
    Argentina
    No it wasnt
     
  18. Grant

    Grant Life is a rock, but the radio rolled me!

    No, i'm not.


    I already noticed that, thank you!
     
  19. warren

    warren Forum Resident

    Location:
    Phoenix, AZ
    Cool, thanks for corroborating.
     
  20. sagafan

    sagafan Member

    Location:
    Midsouth
    I'm sure Steve knows what's best. Isn't that why we are all here.
     
  21. Grant

    Grant Life is a rock, but the radio rolled me!

    It's why we like his work. I'm not butt-kissing when I say that I have yet to hear anyone's work match the results Steve gets. You know, all these other big name guys have to do is take out the damn TC Finalizer, or whatever plug-in they use these days, and ease up on the EQ, and they can get close. Steve often bypasses the console, and has even hinted that it's use is one of the main reasons the major label stuff comes out smeared.
     
  22. Mike D'Aversa

    Mike D'Aversa Senior Member

    One of them is HDCD.exe - http://www.srcf.ucam.org/~cjk32/hdcd/hdcd.zip
    (only for PC's), from this thread -
    http://forum.doom9.org/archive/index.php/t-129136.html

    Within that zip is the exe file itself.

    It only has a command line interface (which means it's "old-school" text/character/dos-based), so it doesn't really "install" on the computer. This also means many people will be instantly turned off by the whole thing, because most users don't know/remember how to work in this way. For those too intimidated, you may want to just rely on asking others which, if any, of your cds uses "peak-extension". As I said, the large majority of them don't. But, those that do, will sound much better decoded than undecoded (to various extents ranging from "meh", to "I can't listen to this loud/shrill thing").

    You simply put it (the hdcd.exe file) anywhere you want on the computer (the easiest place is usually the first folder after your name). So, for example, on my Windows Vista PC the folder location address would read "Computer > Local Disk (C:) > Users > Mike D'Aversa >" at the top.

    Then you would use the "command prompt" feature (usually in the "system tools" folder of the start menu) to open up a small black 80's computer-looking box on the screen that, in my example, would read "C:\Users\Mike D'Aversa>" and then a blinking cursor to type additional commands.

    The main one is "-o" (the letter o, not the number 0). It is used to upconvert the 16 bit wav music track from your cd into 24 bit. The purpose of this is to preserve the potential "peak extension" information hidden within an hdcd that lies within its "theoretical" 16 to 20 bit range (so, if it does use "peak extension", you can then properly dither it back down to 16 bit after decoding).

    Now you take one of those wav files copied off your hdcd and pasted onto your computer, and put one (or all) of them into the same folder as the hdcd.exe program/icon (in this example, the folder immediately after my name). Don't leave the file labeled as, say, "Track 01". The program wants you to string all the letters and numbers together, like "Track01", because this program takes spaces between characters/numbers very importantly (but is not case sensitive, so typing "track01" is no different than "Track01").

    Then you would type, per this example, "C:\Users\Mike D'Aversa\hdcd.exe -o track01hdcd.wav track01.wav".

    Notice I left a space between "hdcd.exe", and "-o". And then another space between "-o" and "track01hdcd.wav". And finally, one between "track01hdcd.wav" and "track01.wav". Next notice that I added "hdcd" immediately after "track01". It is because this is how I want the newly created 24 bit wav file to be named. Remember, this program is reading the info off of a wav file you put in the folder, and is supposed to make a new file. But the track name I'm about to create can't also be the same as the track it is using to read the info off of. It won't work. You don't have to use "hdcd". You could use whatever, as long as it's different from the original file you have put into the folder.

    Also note that I added ".wav" on the ends of both the file from my cd, as well as the file that is about to be created. If it had read "C:\Users\Mike D'Aversa\hdcd.exe -o track01hdcd track01", it wouldn't have worked. You have to add ".wav".

    If there is hdcd detected, it will first say "hdcd detected", followed shortly by 4 different measurements, including whether "peak extension" is present/used (and the degree to which it's used). If it's not present on one of the tracks of your hdcd, then it isn't on any of the other tracks from that cd/project either...


    P.S. - I don't know about ALAC or AIFF, but FLAC retains hdcd "peak-extension" information no many how many times it gets upconverted/downconverted/encoded/decoded/homemade EQ/manually or artificially raised/lowered volume (replaygain/etc) to and from the wav format...
     
  23. chiagerald

    chiagerald Forum Resident

    Location:
    Singapore
    It doesn't matter, as long it sounds good! :)
     
  24. Senn20

    Senn20 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Madison, WI, US
    Using HDCD.exe to convert files sounds like a hassle. I know big hard drives are cheap these days but it still seems like a waste of space. The only reason I'd ever want to do it is if I had a disc utilizing peak extension that I wanted to put on my portable player.

    I just use the Foobar2000 HDCD plugin.
     
  25. Mike D'Aversa

    Mike D'Aversa Senior Member

    Yes, louder and brighter. But to my knowledge no AF cd has ever had this problem be due to the "peak-extension" hdcd feature, because neither Steve nor Kevin use that feature.

    If you find an AF cd overly loud and/or bright, then your disagreement is with Kevin or Steve's mastering choices.

    Interesting.

    I haven't looked into the Oldfield hdcd's, but I have looked into the standard Doors hdcd remasters from the 90's. I figured they might be a tad too loud and/or bright, and suspected "peak-extension". But it turns out it was just the mastering.

    Although, keep in mind that all hdcd's that get decoded (but don't use peak-extension), end up getting outputed at a different/lower volume than originally intended for non-hdcd players/converters (so that could account for the differences)...
     
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