Japanese CDs made via HR cutting technique*

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by RnRmf, Sep 12, 2012.

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  1. RnRmf

    RnRmf Active Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Orlando, FL
    I just ran across this today. It looks like JVC started making cd's with this new HR Cutting technique last year.

    I didn't see any previous thread about it.

    Has anybody actually heard one?

    I ran across a T.Rex listing on ebay from Teichiku with HR Cutting and researched what it was.

    In short, according to the info...
    The master is used to make a high resolution master (wav, aiff 176.4/24 etc.), and this master is sent to the high resolution cutter using the k2 laser.

    This process avoids making a DDP master (or other) and/or a cd master tape before the cutting process.

    Here is the JVC link that you will probably need to translate...

    http://www3.jvckenwood.com/press/2011/hr_cutting.html
     
  2. RnRmf

    RnRmf Active Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Orlando, FL
    thread needs to be corrected to HR Cutting, not HD Cutting... oops...
     
  3. tomd

    tomd Forum Resident

    Location:
    Brighton,Colorado
    Great! Bring Em On!
     
  4. bdiament

    bdiament Producer, Engineer, Soundkeeper

    Location:
    New York
    Hi RnRmf,

    I'd love to see a real translation of this because based on the info you provide, this sounds to me like it could be a step *down*, not up.

    A DDP file set is simply a data file set (the audio collected into a single file, along with other files for the contents, etc.). There is absolutely zero loss from creating CD masters this way and in fact, it is the preferred way -for myself and most of my colleagues- for getting the very best possible CD pressings from the master.

    I haven't heard of anyone using tape for CD masters in years. Many use audio CD-Rs, which are not great as any errors on the CD-R are transferred to the replicated discs.

    The idea of using a high res source (you mentioned 24/176.4) during cutting of the glass master means sample rate conversion must be applied on-the-fly. In my experience, even the very best sample rate conversion algorithms do not perform at anything close to their best when used on-the-fly.

    Perhaps there is more information to be gleaned but if what you've said is true, I would avoid this process for my own recordings and I wouldn't recommend it to my mastering clients. Much better to deliver a 16/44 master as a DDP file set for glass mastering. I wouldn't want to leave the SRC (as well as the dithering and noise shaping) to a third party and I certainly wouldn't want it done on-the-fly.

    Hopefully, there is some mistake (or misinterpretation on my part) and the process they offer is truly an advance.

    Just my perspective, of course.

    Best regards,
    Barry
    www.soundkeeperrecordings.com
    www.barrydiamentaudio.com
     
  5. warleywarrior

    warleywarrior Active Member

    Location:
    Manchester England
    T REX in HR?

    Just Ordered T. REX The Slider HR Cutting? version from CD Japan(cheaper than Ebay)will inform you when it arrives as to the sound?? They also have listed Tanx and Great Hits by T.Rex in this format.
     
  6. Claude

    Claude Forum Resident

    Location:
    Luxembourg
    The usual japanese audiophile stuff.

    It's a CD. 16bit/44.1kHz PCM sound. No need to try to improve the disc manufacturing. Just release the hi-rez digital source.
     
    clmt55 likes this.
  7. tomd

    tomd Forum Resident

    Location:
    Brighton,Colorado
    Speak for yourself-I love my Blu Spec discs and they sound terrific! Would take one of those anyday over Audio Fidelity and their lame title choices offered of late.
     
    JeffR714 likes this.
  8. tomd

    tomd Forum Resident

    Location:
    Brighton,Colorado
    Post deleted
     
  9. tomd

    tomd Forum Resident

    Location:
    Brighton,Colorado
    Do you have the same title as an SHM disc? Would be interesting to compare the two sonically
     
  10. tomd

    tomd Forum Resident

    Location:
    Brighton,Colorado
    Can't help but find it interesting the CD Japan makes no mention of the discs as being HR Cutting Discs or lists them under their special formats section.they are cheaper than eBay but still $30 plus per disc.I think I'll wait to hear from those here who purchase them how they sound once the discs arrive.
     
  11. RnRmf

    RnRmf Active Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Orlando, FL
    I'm not a big fan of the sound quality on the T.Rex Teichiku releases but it will be interesting if you note sound quality differences versus the recent non HR Cutting Teichiku releases of these titles.
    Please follow up with your opinion!
     
  12. Claude

    Claude Forum Resident

    Location:
    Luxembourg
    They would sound terrific without the Blu-spec thingy.

    XRCD, SHM-CD, Blu-Spec CD, HQ-CD, HR Cutting CD, ... the same marketing pattern.

    On the japanese audiophile market, labels try to give CDs a high tech appeal to be able to justify the high price. Good mastering alone is more difficult to advertize. That's also the reason why MFSL or DCC made "24k Gold" CDs.

    Those japanese CDs should be judged on their mastering merits, but don't focus on the technology aspect, which is just a plump marketing method to grab the audiophile's attention.
     
    clmt55 likes this.
  13. tomd

    tomd Forum Resident

    Location:
    Brighton,Colorado
    What nonsense-better sound is better sound that's all that counts in the end.My Blu Spec discs sound fantastic and on average have MUCH better titles to choose from then the shlock AF is putting out.
     
    JeffR714 likes this.


  14. IMVHO, snake oil. :wave:
     
  15. ffracer

    ffracer Forum Resident

    You are be entitled to your opinion, but even in Japan the SHM, Blu-spec, HR, etc. CDs are sold alongside regular releases and imports and are niche there, because many there do not buy into the concept either.

    I agree with Claude. Mastering as a percentage of value added will matter far more than most of the techniques listed.

    AF and MFSL put out titles that will sell AND they can get licensing for. I think they do a pretty good job.
     
  16. tomd

    tomd Forum Resident

    Location:
    Brighton,Colorado
    Yeah right:rolleyes:,I 'd like to see the sales totals for the AF Mike and The Mechanics in a years time for the U.S. vs. ANY popular title of an SHM disc in Japan...
     
    JeffR714 likes this.
  17. tomd

    tomd Forum Resident

    Location:
    Brighton,Colorado
    So how many do you own-or have compared to their regular versions?
     
    JeffR714 likes this.


  18. Only a couple; I am not suspeptible to this kind of smoke & mirrors technology. It's all in the mastering. If there is new mastering that demonstratably better than an alternative mastering, whether it is on Blu Spec or SHM or any other of the new polycarbonate CDs, then I am in. If it is the same old loud and compressed mastering, you can count me out.
     
  19. tomd

    tomd Forum Resident

    Location:
    Brighton,Colorado
    NO it is NOT all in the mastering-better final sound is better final sound period.just like most here on the forum who always prefer the "well mastered"flat bass shy 80s discs over any remastered they focus on one thing only-detail resolution,bass extension,separation doesn't matter to them.
     
    JeffR714 likes this.
  20. dcscott

    dcscott Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Ontario Canada
    :agree:
     
    clmt55 likes this.
  21. moops

    moops Forum Resident

    Location:
    Geebung, Australia
    Well, I've got a couple of CDs from Japan with a little logo on the Obi which states Rubidium Atomic Clock CD Cutting. I figured as much as soon as I hit play, I thought to myself, "mmmm, that sounds like a disc cut using a Rubidium Atomic Clock." ;)
     
  22. ffracer

    ffracer Forum Resident


    I doubt either the AF or the SHM of Mike + Mechanics sell much in quantity relative to the normal version in either market.

    Have you ever been to Japan? It is pretty obvious when you see what's for sale on the shelves. Both are niche products.
     
  23. tomd

    tomd Forum Resident

    Location:
    Brighton,Colorado
    Well let me be more specific-I'd like to see what an AF version of Mike and The Mechanics sells OUTSIDE of The Steve Hoffman Music Forum (which I bet are three quarters of AF's sales total) vs. what an average popular SHM title sells total Worldwide.
     
    JeffR714 likes this.
  24. Shawn

    Shawn Forum Resident

    Location:
    West Hollywood, CA
    What would that prove?
     
  25. tomd

    tomd Forum Resident

    Location:
    Brighton,Colorado
    It proves that for members HERE are especially biased towards AF discs and against/and are sceptical towards any discs coming out of Japan aimed at the audiophile market-that's what.The forum poster I was originally responding to said AF and MOFI put out titles they can license and think will sell well-well I agree with the first half of that statement,not so much the 2nd half.
     
    JeffR714 likes this.
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