Japanese CDs - reliably good?

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Vincent3, Jul 9, 2016.

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  1. Jon777opeth

    Jon777opeth Active Member

    Location:
    BUrlinton ky
    I have always bought japanese cds because they usually are not over compressed. I recently bought ozzy down to earth and heaven and hell the devil you know which were so loud and distorted. The heaven and hell was an shm cd to. Sounded horrible. Anyone else had this problem?
     
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  2. eric777

    eric777 Astral Projectionist

    In many cases it's just how the music was mastered. There really isn't much the Japanese can do about it. Several of my Iron Maiden and Megadeth CDs are from Japan. The Megadeth ones are all SHM versions. All of them are as loud as the US versions.
     
  3. Bobby Morrow

    Bobby Morrow Senior Member

    Japanese CDs used to be the best sounding ones in the 80s and 90s. Not so much anymore.

    However, they are still generally the best packaged.:)
     
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  4. sandimascharvel

    sandimascharvel Forum Resident

    Location:
    NJ USA
    For some of my favorite albums, I have bought the Japan issues and find that they often have better stereo separation and clarity than their US counterparts with the same mastering. They don't always win out. Sometimes I'll prefer the UK or WG pressings.
     
    Dave likes this.
  5. Matthew B.

    Matthew B. Scream Quietly

    Location:
    Tokyo, Japan
    If they have the same mastering, then they have the same stereo separation.
     
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  6. sandimascharvel

    sandimascharvel Forum Resident

    Location:
    NJ USA
    As others mentioned, Japan CD's often have the same mastering (sometimes they don't). Ozzy's Down To Earth is compressed on CD. I have the US and Japan CD's and while the Japan CD has a bonus track and sounds slightly better overall, it's the same brickwalled mastering, just like his Black Rain, Scream and Blizzard and Diary 2011 remasters and his 2002 remasters. Check out the dynamic range database (you can also contribute your own DR evaluations). It's a great resource. Often, pressings from different countries are listed. It looks like the vinyl pressing of Down to Earth is much better (I only have the CD).

    Album list - Dynamic Range Database »
     
  7. SpudOz

    SpudOz Forum Resident

    Well I and another member who has commented on this thread both own the This Is The Devo box set from 2008 that contains Devo's first six LPs for WB as well as the greatly expanded Dev-O Live EP. The mastering is unique to this box set and is certainly a bit hot when compared to the original album releases but not a brickwalled mess like a lot of current releases. There is a regular clipping on all titles but they still sound pretty good. A bit more clarity than the 1991 Japanese releases but less dynamics. There is a very slight mid-range push when compared to the 2009/10 US WB remasters of the corresponding titles. For both Oh, No! It's Devo and Shout there is no direct WB comparison because WB has never released these titles in their own right on CD (only US re-issues licensed through Infinite Zero in the mid-90s and the Collectables label in the early/mid 2000s). The presentation and artwork however of the mini LPs is a joy to behold. On both Freedom of Choice and Oh, No! It's Devo the cover artwork betters ANY 12" vinyl LP release that I have ever seen - and I own quite a few of each title.
     
  8. sandimascharvel

    sandimascharvel Forum Resident

    Location:
    NJ USA
    The Japan pressings I have of a number of titles have noticibly better separation, but the same mastering. It seems it may also depend on when the disc was pressed in the run. I have three Japan copies of Lillian Axe's Poetic Justice and three US copies plus a UK copy. All of the Japan copies have better separation than the US and UK copies with one of the Japans being even wider and clearer than the other two Japans. I have two Japan first press copies of Ozzy's The Ultimate Sin and one US early DADC and one Aussie pressing. All the same original mastering. Both Japan pressings have better separation than the US and Aussie but one Japan is wider and clearer than the other. The Japan first press I have of Bark of the Moon has a much better separation than my early US DADC. There are others. I don't know all the reasons why for all of that. There was one post in this thread that may have explained it. I'm not technical. I'm a musician and I just use my ears. It seems to be one of those things that is debated. All I know is that I can do blindfold tests and can pick one from the other, so for me, it makes those albums all the more enjoyable.
     
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  9. Masmusic

    Masmusic Compact Discs Forever!

    Ever since the beginning of time the Japanese have always been superior when it comes to recording and manufacturing CD's or vinyl. Not sure what their secret is? maybe there just so far advanced in their technology. I have been collecting Japanese mini Lp CD's also known as Cardboard Sleeves for years now. I probably have close to 500 + of them. I also have maybe 100 of regular jewel case CD's from Japan and recently have been purchasing the Blu-spec CD 2 format, that I find are totally above in sound quality than a regular CD. I am a little bias as I am a CD fanatic and just hate the sound of vinyl. I would put up any Japanese manufactured CD against any vinyl release! The only CD's that come close to a Japanese manufactured CD are the Audio Fidelity releases or the Sony Mastersound releases ! If your into CD's and want the best you pay more, but you get the best. I have no problem highly recommending CD's manufactured in Japan.
     
  10. c-eling

    c-eling They're made of light,We never would have guessed

    Barry D. explained somewhat about it on an old Genesis Invisible Touch thread. Even with the same mastering different pressing plants/techniques etc. could possibly affect the sound.
    A couple examples where I've noticed differances-
    OMD's Pacific Age Japan for US and the old UK/Euro
    Lush-Spooky US SRC-01 and the UK Nimbus
    The Japan Mini of Def Leppard's Hysteria-2008 (Uses the original Japan mastering) trumps my old US -Not sure if the UK is the same as the early Japan however
    The problem I find with later 2000 Japan's is the massive compression they started adding on certain titles/re-issues
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2017
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  11. sandimascharvel

    sandimascharvel Forum Resident

    Location:
    NJ USA
    Thanks for the info. I think I saw him mention that in a U2 thread too. It's very interesting.

    I didn't realize that regarding the later 2000 stuff. So they are adding compression to what would have been the same mastering?
     
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  12. c-eling

    c-eling They're made of light,We never would have guessed

    Good question.
    All I know about are the one's I purchased over the years, a couple examples-
    The Cars-Door To Door Mini SHM 2012, Heartbeat City Mini SHM 2012 have massive compression, of course the packaging is beautiful :laugh:
    Cocteau Twins-
    Blue Bell Knoll -Japan Mini 2006 Uses the old Japan master (Sounds great) Beautiful gatefold representaion
    Heaven or Las Vegas-Japan Mini 2006 Uses the 2004 (worldwide) remaster
    With these inconsistencies I pretty much stopped buying them
    Some may enjoy heavy compression (loudness), Especially if they are putting them on portables. I don't however :cheers:
    Definitely a case by case situation
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2017
  13. patient_ot

    patient_ot Senior Member

    Location:
    USA
    Bingo. In some cases the Japanese discs may feature identical (good or bad) mastering to a less expensive domestic issue also. Case by case like everything else.
     
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  14. Jon777opeth

    Jon777opeth Active Member

    Location:
    BUrlinton ky
    Thanks guus for your input
     
  15. Jon777opeth

    Jon777opeth Active Member

    Location:
    BUrlinton ky
    Thanks for inout guys.
     
  16. Matthew B.

    Matthew B. Scream Quietly

    Location:
    Tokyo, Japan
    I have never heard the slightest difference between undamaged CDs with identical masterings. I suppose in the abstract it's possible that a CD player would do this, but of course that would mean that the player is not functioning properly. There's certainly no mechanism that would give one disc wider stereo than the other.
    My questions then would be: How do you know the discs had the same mastering? And were these single- or double-blind tests?
     
  17. EddieVanHalen

    EddieVanHalen Forum Resident

    I can test if a Japanese has the same mastering or not next to a US or European release and without any listening test.
    Using Imgburn I do an ISO of the Japanese CD. Once the ISO is done I insert its US or EU conterpart and verify the ISO with the CD. If it checks, the mastering is the same as both are bit identical, if it doesn't check, masterings are different. If in doubt, I repeat the operation.
     
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  18. Matthew B.

    Matthew B. Scream Quietly

    Location:
    Tokyo, Japan
    Yeah, this basically works. Though it might lead to false negatives sometimes ― for instance, sometimes two discs will use the sane mastering but with slightly different gaps between the tracks.

    Another issue with Japanese discs is that they'll often add one or two bonus tracks. The disc image will be different from its European or American counterpart, but the mastering on the non-bonus material is likely identical.

    Of course in these cases you can check the individual tracks with file-comparison tools or an audio editor.
     
  19. ricks

    ricks Senior Member

    Location:
    127.0.0.1:443
    That would be the case with EAC peaks but not with a CRC32 or MD5 hashes of ISO's. If that is how EddieVanHalen is doing it?
     
  20. Matthew B.

    Matthew B. Scream Quietly

    Location:
    Tokyo, Japan
    I'm not sure how a CRC32 or MD5 hash would correctly identify the discs as identical masterings unless you set it up to ignore periods of silence. Which, granted, can be done.
     
  21. sandimascharvel

    sandimascharvel Forum Resident

    Location:
    NJ USA
    Multiple players, undamaged discs and same differences appear. Ripped to lossless FLAC and same differences appear. Same masterings compared. If you are looking for answers as to how or why, I would suggest tracking down the Barry Diament comments that were referenced above. His explanation would be far better than what I could provide. For whatever reason, many hear and enjoy the same kinds of differences, and many don't.
     
  22. Holy Joe

    Holy Joe Forum Resident

    Location:
    London
    As your question was "Do Japanese market CDs usually sound good enough that it's safe to buy them on spec?". I would say yes. My reason being that I buy a lot of Japanese CDs. I've been buying them since the 80's. I can honestly say I've only ever had two which I found to be poor quality. In both cases it is obvious that the original master tape was no longer available, so that was the issue. There was a time when I would buy large quantities of CDs from Japan and have them shipped over. I was always delighted.
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2017
  23. Matthew B.

    Matthew B. Scream Quietly

    Location:
    Tokyo, Japan
    Thanks. I've read Diament's comments on the subject before; I enjoy a lot of the discs he mastered, but his understanding of CD playback is sometimes a bit off (see his remark about "sine waves" here, for example). In fairness, he's not an electronic engineer, and doesn't pretend to be.
     
  24. RingoStarr39

    RingoStarr39 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Baden, PA
    The hype about Japanese CD's being objectively better is just that, hype.
     
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  25. EddieVanHalen

    EddieVanHalen Forum Resident

    Listen to the Japanese Forever Young Series Van Halen's 5150, OU812 (real bass!!!), For Unlawful Carnal Knowledge (drums kicks harder) or Balance (less compression) from 2005, The Japanese Forever Young Series of Madonna's Like A Prayer (and obvious remaster also, and a good one) or Michael Nyman's soundtrack for Gattaca (it DOES sound better and without a glitch on the first track as the international release has), and you'll see they're not hype.
     
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