Jimi Hendrix Both Sides of the Sky - new album coming March 9, 2018

the "solo demo" NBF(6)/SPTTN can be found on boot only or collectors sets, boots include Multicoloured Blues and more "modern" / recent boots.
Best to ask for a copy from one of the collectors.

 

That's it. I'm not sure why Frankensteining is a term to bicker about - his monster was composed of disparate parts from different humans; obviously bringing together parts that were never conceivably designed to go together. Yes, I have read the novel.

Mannish Boy is a different case; it's compiled from different takes from the same day with the same musicians edited together. Nothing that couldn't have been done in 1969.

 

I just played them side by side and the new version is a much stronger track with a cleaner vocal (the Blues version has Jimi just mouthing sounds in parts) and the whole thing has a better kick to it.

 

It´s also possible that the "solo demo" is in fact isolated vocal/guitar from a group take, done by Douglas. I think McDermott tried to explain it this way in Jimpress magazine - can´t remember any more right now.

 

Ahh, a frankensteined piece then

Sorry, couldn't resist!!

There by hangs a tale. A lot of what we hear has been manipulated one way or another. Any idea from which JP this was? I can check if I know were to look.

 

Most likely the 1st or 2nd issue after Valleys of Neptune was released.

 

He's lying in that case. I just tried to match them up; the tempos are different even with pitch adjustment, and the solo demo has a different structure. Besides, it's clear that Jimi is accompanying himself on guitar on the vocal/guitar track. He stops playing when he forgets the words ("I fuc*d it up!").

 

I think the point was that it could be from another group take (not the released group take), but as there is not bleed from any other instrument, I suggest that it is indeed a demo.

 

That's called using effects, Gordon, not Frankensteining. Valley's of Neptune track is unlistenable. How is adding reverb anything like grabbing vocals from a completely unrelated take/sessions and warping them to fit a different track?

 

Pardon my ignorance, but has the first track from Nine to the Universe ever been re released? (Im at work...mental blank).

 

No. That's the only track from the album yet to be
released by EH

 

I didn't know about Mannish Boy being a composite or of Ships being frankensteined. It's heartbreaking. Is Kramer really the one behind this? I had blamed him but when you think about it it's probably a couple pro-tools nerd interns butchering, destroying and re-creating the vocals with haze and mirrors. Isn't Kramer a dinosaur?

 

I am aware what the term is for any given process but thanks for the pointer.

You miss the whole point of my post in respect of the whole point being made. As so many here want to use a term not suitable for a process I simply moved it [the term] to other processes that would apply under the vague and lazy terminology of Frankensteining.

As I have pointed out earlier, I have not singled out any track. Mostly due to the fact that the Frankenstein comment is used in such a carte blanch manner. I fully understand its usage in one or two instances and its difficult to understand the thinking behind that process, maybe time will allow regret?

But the point is still valid to a degree but maybe different terminology. In the case of added reverb [for instance], we find Hendrix live material drenched in it from the Douglas era. Way past Hendrix's death we have reverb "flown in" from the engineers head! Again, this is not about if I or anyone else for that matter likes the end result. Is it "ethical"? The answer to that, as much as anything else done to Hendrix's back catalogue.

 

and there you have it folks.

Back to OP for me!

 

One bad apple spoils the bunch and it shows they are willing to unnecessarily throw genetically engineered oranges in the apple barrel for no good reason. These people are fools! Fools I say. Their audience is Hendrix fans who want the real thing. These atrocities are caused by EH's delusion that they need to edit the songs to be acceptable for air play. But there is no airplay. They are really destroying this beautiful and important artwork just so the song can be played once on the day it's released and never again on some satellite radio classic rock station?

 

Because it's rape plain and simple and so they are rapists. Even if it's only 2 or 3 rapes we know about, still a rapist and so they have been designated as such.

 

Well glad someone likes Kramer's tinkering, he surely needs it. I hope he'll do a Jimi-Kendrick Lamar duet album, you know some cool raps atop Fire, for example that you can enjoy. We don't know Jimi wouldn't approve, everything is possible, so to heck with ethics. And if we differentiate between reverb on a live vocal (which is done to give hall ambience; board tapes are never representative of the actual live sound) and pasting together totally unrelated recordings it's nitpicking. Right.

 

I'm still not sure "Mannish Boy" is a composite. That
seemed to be the consensus very shortly after it was
posted on YouTube. Has anyone gone and listened to
the session to see if it is one take? Is the session tape
that has been available the complete session?

This is also the first time I am hearing that "Ships"
is a Frankenstein job. I have both the boots mentioned
with the solo demo somewhere. I have always referred
to the song as "Night Messenger". The bridge between
"Ships" and "Nightbird Flying". I'll have to have a
listen to it later.

 

Only part of the session circulates. The part that does has not one single complete take. It's pretty evident it's a composite.

 

I have to say I actually like the newer version better I think. hahaha I like the guitar tone a lot on the newer one.

 

Why is it heartbreaking if the results are an enjoyable listen?

 

Have our tastes changed? Are we just more "sophisticated" consumers? No one complained when Douglas made a composite of "Manish Boy" back in 1994 (or Voodoo Chile for that matter). Heck, the originally released version of "Message To Love" has the solo punched in from another take and I love it. To me, that song just doesn't have the same impact without that solo. This debate could go on forever but I do think there's a huge distinction to be made between compiling a complete song from different takes that occurred somewhere around the same time frame and using digital workstations to undertake the large kinds of manipulations that have already been discussed here.

The lines between what is seen as acceptable vs. unacceptable "manipulations" has definitely gotten a bit fuzzier over time. One thing's for sure, no one seems to be able to agree where the line between tasteful ends and "defiling the legacy" begins.

 

I agree in this case. What's worse, hearing an attempt at compiling a polished version of "Mannish Boy" or never getting to hear it at all because none of the takes in and of themselves ever got near to being a fully realized/complete version of the song? I mean, nailing a song in a single take (like the classic Voodoo Child (Slight Return)) is great, but Jimi wasn't really working in a super structured manner at many of the sessions post Chas' depature until he started finding inspiration in the spring/summer of 1970 with a batch of new songs.

 

Must be the silly season, or at least that time of the day [wherever you are in the world, lol].

Seems your reading something into a post that is just not there!

Who said Jimi would or would not approve? Ethic's has little if anything to do with approval! Who said I support EK / EH?

We know why ANY GIVEN PROCESS IS APPLIED, it changes nothing. I also made reference to just how much was reverb applied to songs in the Douglas era.

Someone else missing the point of the debate, which is the over use of the term Frankensteining. Someone else wanting to move the goal posts as so often occurs on this forum

 

I think there's a distinction. Kramer compiled different takes for Drifting on Cry of Love back in 1970...no one complained then either.