The idea for this thread grew out of this one: What Coltrane (John) album are you listening to? I don't profess to be an expert on John Coltrane, but I can volunteer to facilitate this thread. His career is one of the most deserving of an album-by-album approach. I would like to include side appearances along with albums under his own name, and proceed according to recording date, primarily for two reasons: he was always searching and growing, so going chronologically by recording date gives us the best opportunity to hear and appreciate his growth as a musician; and he has had so many posthumous releases, on various labels, recorded with various bands, that I think it makes sense to organize things this way rather than as released. Michael Cuscuna makes the great point in his liner notes to The Complete Sun Ship Sessions that in 1965, Coltrane listeners were completely unfamiliar with the band and the material played at the live shows because they'd only heard what had been released to date, and the lineup was changing so quickly that year. Proceeding chronologically by recording date fills in the blanks along the way. So, up first I'll combine Coltrane's 78 rpm sides and 10 inches from 1949 to 1952, which I am completely unfamiliar with. According to Wikipedia, these are: Billy Valentine, "How Long, How Long/Beer Drinking Baby," and "Ain't Gonna Cry No More/I Want You to Love Me," recorded 1949-11-07, on Mercury; Dizzy Gillespie, "Say When/You Stole My Wife, You Horse Thief," and "Tally Ho/I Can't Remember," recorded 1949-11-21, and "Carambola/Honeysuckle Rose," recorded 1950-01-09, on Capitol; Gay Crosse, "Easy Rockin'/G.C. Rock," and "No Better for You/Tired of Being Shoved Around You," recorded sometime in 1952, on Republic, and "Fat Sam from Birmingham/Bittersweet," recorded 1952-01-19, on Gotham; and Earl Bostic, Earl Bostic for You, Dance Time, and Earl Bostic and His Alto Sax, Vol. 4, recorded 1952-04-07 and 1952-08-15, on King. Has anyone heard these sides? What's the best way to listen to them digitally, assuming they're available? Long shot--anyone here have them on original shellac or vinyl?
Some great quotes about Earl Bostic from his Wikipedia entry: Lou Donaldson: Bostic Bostic "was the greatest saxophone player I ever knew. Bostic was down at Minton's and Charlie Parker came in there. They played "Sweet Georgia Brown" or something and he gave Charlie Parker a saxophone lesson. Now you'd see him, we'd run up there and think that we're going to blow him out, and he'd make you look like a fool. Cause he'd play three octaves, louder, stronger and faster." Appelbaum, Larry. "Before & After: Lou Donaldson « Let's Cool One". Larryappelbaum.wordpress.com. Art Blakey: "Nobody knew more about the saxophone than Bostic, I mean technically, and that includes Bird. Working with Bostic was like attending a university of the saxophone.When Coltrane played with Bostic, I know he learned a lot." Williams, T. (1985), "That's Earl Brother" Liner Notes 12"LP Spotlite SPJ152 Herts, UK.
I found "Beer Drinking Baby" by Billy Valentine on the compilation The Mercury Blues Story (1945-1955): West Coast Blues Volume 1. It's a jump blues with Coltrane playing licks between lines and taking a fairly rudimentary solo. Nothing there to indicate what would come. I wasn't able to find any of the Dizzy Gillespie sides on Apple Music, except for "You Stole My Wife, You Horse Thief," which is a big band number, so hard to tell if it's the version with Coltrane as I don't know whether Diz recorded it multiple times, and there's no tenor sax solo. Some of the Gay Crosse songs are on Apple Music, including "G.C. Rock," "No Better for You," and "Tired of Being Shoved Around." Looks like "Easy Rockin'" and "Bittersweet" are on YouTube. I'll play these once and likely never again. Now listening to Coltrane's solo on "No Better for You," which is well constructed, but nothing to write home about.
Checking out some Earl Bostic sides now, and it sounds like the band is completely buried, there's vibes in the left channel and Bostic's alto sax in the right. Pretty skippable if you're looking for Coltrane content, I think.
I have recently gotten into Coltrane so I will definitely offer some input when we get to the albums I have!
...awesome undertaking @Gabe Walters! This is exciting I haven’t heard any ‘Trane earlier than his sideman gigs on Prestige. Really looking forward to following this thread through the years
So, this site is far more thorough than the Wikipedia discography page: John Coltrane Catalog And it makes me understand what a foolish undertaking this is! Already I've missed four tracks with Dinah Washington recorded in September 1949, including an alternate take. "Fast Movin' Mama," "Juice Head Man of Mine," and "Richest Guy in the Graveyard" are on Apple Music, on The Fabulous Miss D! - The Keynote, Decca and Mercury Singles 1943-1953. These are big band numbers without obvious Coltrane content, though. I think what I'll do is listen to these things before I post, and try to bring to our attention only those side-man appearances that I think are important to understand Coltrane's development.
An ambitious undertaking for one of the most important musicians of the 20th century. He has a massive catalogue, spread out over many musicians' stock. Looking forward to where this goes.
There's a live recording of the Dizzy Gillespie sextet, Trane's First Ride 1951, from (you guessed it) 1951. I haven't listened yet, but it's on Spotify. That might be a reasonable place to dive in, since it's not big band stuff. I'll check it out tomorrow while working. Off to bed now.
Well it is album by album so you should be forgiven for the odd mis-step. Of course it's important to chart Trane's development from the outset but I imagine the meat of this thread is really going to be about the Prestige>Atlantic>Impulse! material. I don't expect too many people will be seeking out journeyman Coltrane product unless they are obsessives. Anyway, many thanks for taking this on, I'd love to see an 'a-by-a' for Monk but realistically I don't have the time.
Moving right along. In 1954, Coltrane recorded a handful of tunes with Johnny Hodges, which ended up on The Blues, Used to Be Duke, and More of Johnny Hodges. These tracks are "Burgundy Walk" (not available on Apple Music, as far as I can tell), "On the Sunny Side of the Street," "Sweet as Bear Meat," and "Used to Be Duke." The latter three I've listened to on Apple Music, and they don't contain too much standout material. But I include this because Coltrane was playing with his friend Jimmy Heath. If I remember correctly, the recent documentary Chasin' the Trane features a Jimmy Heath quote about meeting Coltrane: "he sounds just like Johnny Hodges!" or something to that effect. So it would appear that these experiences with Heath and Hodges were formative for Coltrane, and presumably they would have been how he came into Miles Davis' orbit, perhaps along with his experience on Dizzy Gillespie's bandstand.
There is also a live performance with Hodges that was released as Enigma 1052, At a Dance, In a Studio, on Radio, from LA in June, 1954. Does anyone have this? Is it worth seeking out?
The overall playing on Used to the Duke is excellent, but Coltrane doesn't solo. Definitely a formative time for him.
I hope folks don't mind that I'm going to head right away into the Miles material, in an effort to generate discussion with some familiar material. Miles sits in on an all-star set at the Newport Jazz Festival in 1955 and George Avakian brings him to Columbia. Instead of recording in studio with his typical one-off sessions with all-star bands, Miles forms his own working group, which has come to be known as The First Great Quintet and ultimately all-stars in their own right: Philly Joe Jones, Paul Chambers, Red Garland, and of course John Coltrane on tenor sax. They play the Steve Allen show on NBC on October 18, 1955 and then enter the Columbia Studio D on October 26, 1955. At this session, they record the version of Charlie Parker's "Ah-Leu-Cha" that ends up on Miles' first Columbia record, 'Round About Midnight. They also record "Two Bass Hit" which ends up, years later, on Circle in the Round during Miles' retirement period when Columbia began opening the vaults for retrospective releases. And an alternate version of "Ah-Leu-Cha." On November 16, 1955, they're back in Hackensack, NJ, recording a Miles date for Prestige, as he wasn't yet off his contract at the time. This session is released as Miles, aka The New Miles Davis Quintet, and it's the first album to be released featuring this band. The band reenters Columbia's famed 30th Street Studios to finish 'Round About Midnight on June 5 and September 10, 1956.
The volume of music out there with Coltrane is immense, my Coltrane catalog barely skims the surface.......My favorite record is Coltrane Live At the Village Vanguard. As we know this recording created a lot of stir among jazz critics, calling it a bunch of musical non-sense.....LOL The pc Chasin the Trane is crazy, crazy amazing! I have the 2012 Jazz Wax reissue which includes Greensleeves, an excellent pc also. The recent documentary was very nicely done........
I have that New Miles Davis Quintet release via the Miles Davis Chronicle Prestige box set. It's good, but I don't return to it often. I think part of that is because the material they would go on to produce is so much better.
I don't often listen to these records, myself, though I enjoy them whenever I do. For 'Round About Midnight, I've got the K2 CD and the CD from the mono box, the Kevin Gray-cut mono vinyl, and the MOFI vinyl. Too many copies of a record I rarely play! For New Miles Davis Quintet, I've got the AP 45, cut by Steve Hoffman and Kevin Gray. These records present, I think, the earliest opportunity to hear Coltrane really come into his own as a soloist on record. Of course he would grow so much more, including with this band's later material and especially beyond, but this is probably the best place for most listeners to jump into his work. Expertly recorded for the time, and beautifully played.
What's remarkable to me is how little recorded history Coltrane had before joining Miles. To most listeners, he'd have been a complete unknown and heard for the first time on The New Miles Davis Quintet. Of course, Prestige listeners were still a particular niche of the overall public. What a tremendous opportunity it must have been to join Miles at Columbia for a relatively young and obscure musician at that time. Of course, a musician of his caliber makes great use of the platform.
Interesting thread. I thought I would share the 2 links below: The John Coltrane Reference Coltrane House (japanese, you may use Google Chrome Auto translate function). This is the website of Yasuiro Fujioka who appears in the recent "Chasing Trane" documentary and defines himself as the biggest John Coltrane fan. Sorry if the likns have been previously shared. Cheers
