"John is in fact the leader of the group" - Paul McCartney, 10/28/62

I've been a Beatles fan for almost 30 years and recently I've been digging into the early history. Today I heard for the first time the very first radio interview they did for the BBC on October 28, 1962. You can read an entire transcript here. What made me take notice was Paul saying "John is in fact the leader of the group." In that moment, I was like did I hear that right? I hit rewind and confirmed that Paul indeed said that John was the leader of the Beatles. I guess I kind of recognized this reality early in their career yet I had never heard Paul say John was the leader of the Beatles. If you think about it, their early stage setup communicated this with John getting his own microphone while Paul had to share a mic with George. Nevertheless, Paul's admission raises a question as to how John was leading them during this period. Was he leading them like what we may call a front man? Was he leading them musically through determining set lists, venues, contracts, etc...?

 

New to you, perhaps, but hardly new info. That interview was given away on a flexi-disc with copies of The Beatles Live by Mark Lewisohn, which came out in 1986.

 

Well OK then...

 

I don't think that perception ever really changed over the years either.
I remember John saying years later that whenever something unpleasant needed to be done or said , the others would always look to him to do the dirty work, or however he specifically phrased it .

 

without a doubt... in the early days he was by far the better songwriter and singer...that changed and Paul by the time the White Album came out was on a par... and in fact John began declining in my opinion while Paul kept at it..I mean John then recorded covers and did nothing for five years...and I find his comeback stuff really insipid... I say this as a fan of John.. I was the guy putting down Paul but one night at a party we put on the White Album and I was shocked at how great the Paul songs were....he more than held his own...

 

I've never heard Paul say anything different. It was especially so at the beginning, as John was the oldest and obviously had the gift of gab.

 

Except sacking Pete, apparently.

I do remember that quote you're referring to. He definitely was the mouthpiece of the band, that's for sure!!!

 

John was obviously the leader in the early years, even though he'd always admit all the Beatles were equal. I'd say he was the leader up until Revolver where him and Paul were 50/50, then at least keeping that way until the White Album where Paul began to take charge.

 

...and it was Revolver where John told Paul that he liked Paul's songs more than his own. He was on par with John way before the White Album. That is a silly assertion.

 

Maybe after the White Album, John is all over the White Album.

Anyways the leader doesn't just mean what happens in the studio.

 

October 28, 1962 was the day Fireball XL-5 first aired!

John was older than Paul and George, but oftentimes they'd say there was no leader.

Anyway, they were on radio March 7, 1962, and June 11, 1962 (with Pete Best) and did talk to Ray Peters but not a proper interview I suppose.

 

I can't hear a real leader in their early period. I hear four close genuine friends. Only later when they all became more individual and it ended their friendship and the band.

 

I don't suppose liner notes are canonical, but the back cover of Meet the Beatles! does refer to "group leader Lennon".

 

Of course. Paul became the leader when the others wanted to leave anyway.

 

John got the cake,Paul a slice.

 

Absolutely. Paul was definitely on a par with John in 1966 and then came Pepper, which was Paul's basic concept after all. I also don't really see Paul as being ahead at the time of the white album. He wrote some pretty good stuff but John had the upper hand in my opinion:

Back In The USSR (basic rock and roll/surf song)
Ob-La-Di, Ob-La-Da (a tedious take on ska)
Martha My Dear (great song - in line with Yesterday, For No One,...)
Blackbird (ditto)
Rocky Racoon, I Will (okay but not brilliant)
Birthday, Why Don't We Do It In The Road (anecdotes)
Helter Skelter (a fun bash at a hard rock song - a little turgid)
Honey Pie (music hall nostalgia tripe)
Mother Natures's Son (a little too twee)
Single - Hey Jude (classic)

Rather patchy quality from Paul.
Now look at John's stronger ouput for the album:

Dear Prudence
Glass Onion
Bingalo Bill ( OK, a fun and annoying track for Ringo)
I'm So Tired
Julia
Yer Blues
Revolution 1 (a clever bluesy,doo-wap adaption of the single)
Cry Baby Cry
Single - Revolution

During and after this John was more interested in Yoko and himself rather than the band. Paul tried to take the leadership for Get Back and it was a catastrophe, with them deciding to shelve the resulting recordings (a first!).
Abbey Road saw them back on level pegging before John (still the real leader) informed them all that it was over.

 

Does the talk with Ray Peters still exist? If so, is Pete heard in it? That would be fascinating....

 

Besides the Capitol double record The Beatles Story where it was said John is the leader, you can hear Paul himself saying that on the VeeJay LP Hear The Beatles Tell All. I could be wrong though...

 

Actually Ringo is the oldest. He should've been the leader.

 

I guess that the surprise here is because - of the two of them - you'd have thought that Paul had the greater 'middle management' potential.

I suspect that the other three all recognised that there was something brilliant about John that would lead to great stuff happening for the band, so no one saw a reason to challenge him. I think that George Martin saw it too; although he's more closely associated with Paul in later life, he seems a better 'fit' for John. But the same individuality that made John the focal point for the creativity of the band also made him difficult to contain.

 

That plus it was his band from the beginning, and he was by far the most senior member by the time they started making records.

 

John was the more prolific songwriter on the earlier albums, but with the release of Help!, they were equals in terms of quantity of compositions per album.

 

One reason I like the Beatles is because there was never a sole definite leader. Sometimes John would be the leader, sometimes Paul, sometimes George.

 

John - '62 - '66, Paul '67 - '70.

 

Ringo's the only leader to me.