JOHN LENNON - Rickenbacker question.....

I would say a J-160E counts as an electric

 

I'm not fond of the white pickguard on that '58 either (instead of the original gold one) but Lennon liked it. So I guess it's staying.

 

X-ray doesn't affect magnets or passive electronic components. At super high levels it can affect semiconductors but not at the levels in airport machines. Of course it exposes film.

 

I'm fairly certain that he used this as his second guitar on tours during 1964-65.

 

That would have been Burns guitars.

The Shadows were, as you know, Cliff Richard's backing band and very successful as an instrumental outfit in their own right, very much analogous to the Ventures over here.

Both groups started playing Fenders and went to off brands, Mosrites in the case of the Ventures, Burns in the case of the Shadows.

Both groups told an unlikely but eerily similar story, and one that does not appear the result of collaboration: Both claimed they had been sold or given Fender instruments with fretboards that were miscut or misfretted so proper intonation was impossible. So they switched.

The Burns guitars were quirky but when set up right played very well and had a very distinctive, pleasant sound. My experience with Mosrite Ventures era guitars hasn't ben as positive but some people really like them.

Now did Fender ever ship wrongly fretted or bridged guitars? No one I know will say they know of any such incident. I've never seen one. No one I know has ever seen one. Hmmm.

A friend of mine wrote a fan letter to Pete Townshend in the eighties and asked about Burns guitars, figuring since he was English he'd like them. His reply, I saw the letter, was, "I think Burns guitars are rubbish". But I never saw why. Workmanship was good.

I know that Lennon had Burns KNOBS on his Rick, or one of them, because there was a Japanese place selling repro Burns knobs and an aftermarket style bridge for Ricks because Lennon's had them. They advertised in Vintage Guitar magazine for years.

I don't know what John had against the Shadows in particular.

 

Thanks for this, I never knew they had the Strats that early. Any idea what parts are on a Strat and what the others guitars are on TTR?
That makes me wonder, is there any evidence George definitely used a volume pedal on certain tracks around this time? Because those volume swells are quite easy to do using a Strat's volume control.

 

Ricks are in more demand than the company can or will supply. The owner is not interested in expansion, in moving, or in outsourcing, and he has done a much better job of fighting lookalike and copy guitars than Fender or Gibson, although a big company could minimize his claims if they really wanted a good court fight since there were Rick like guitars in many ways since the 50s and they never fought it then. No one else can make a guitar that resembles a Rick very much without litigation, therefore.

The electric 12 string is one of those things that if you need it you need it, and there is no really good one I know of, if you define good as staying in tune, being intonatable, and having an adequate neck. Most people treat it as a condiment instrument, a novelty you pull out for one song, and are not serious about it.

 

Actually, they used the Strats on 'You're Gonna Lose That Girl' didn't they? So I did know, just forgot that I knew! Those volume swells though, anyone?

 

John really wasn't a guitar aficionado, in my observation. Seems to me, once he got that Rickenbacker, he liked it and had it painted black, and then played it (or the second one that was nearly identical) for several years. I have read that he found the smaller scale easy to deal with back then, especially with bad eyes and no glasses. But whatever the reason, he stuck with it until he fell in love with the Epiphone Casino, which he played almost exclusively for the next several years. Other than those two guitars, there are just one-off pics of him playing other guitars, and that Les Paul he used for the New York concert.

Paul was kind of like that too...a few well-worn tools that span the decades, and several other one-off experiments...although these days I think he plays with more toys. George, in contrast, was always a guitar-geek. His collection was awesome.

By the way, I do believe he played his old Rick again for "Walking on Thin Ice" mainly because of the whammy bar.

 

It's weird to see John holding a Strat.

 

I don't mean to derail this thread, but can you still purchase new Rickenbackers? Their website does not seem to let you buy anything. Can someone give me a link to where I could see which models are still being made and which stores still carry them? Maybe a 411 on Rickenbackers? PM, please. Thanks.

 

Yes, you can purchase new ones. Here's a good internet store: pick of the ricks. There are a few others.

You live in the Bay area, so you'll probably have better luck at some of the guitar stores in the area. Not sure if Guitar Center carries Ricks anymore...I think they did something back in the 90s to p*ss Rickenbacker off.

 

It is. There is also a photo out there of John with a Fender Jazzmaster at an after-hours party while filming Help!

 

With Dick Lester on jazz piano!

 

Great! Thank you very much.

 

I've been using Casino as my main guitar since 2004 so I'm well used to it. In January I held Rick 325 for the first time and with its short scale it felt like I'm playing ukulele, totally different experience compared to a full scale, Casino included.
It is not very versatile instrument but it has the sound I know from the records I love. And the sound is very unique, that percussive punch can't be beat.

Ondra

 

There are 4 guitars in total on Ticket To Ride, three of which know for sure what they are.
2 guitars on track two, played live while laying down the backing track. George on 12string Rickenbacker and John's rhythm (Rick or Fender strat?). My guess is that he played stratocaster as this was the new guitar to try.
Two guitars were overdubbed onto track 4 (along with Ringo's tambourine and John's vocal double tracking) George on Stratocaster (doubles bass guitar) "dang dang", and Paul on Casino playing lead guitar fills after each middle-eigth and during the outro.

Ondra

 

According to George Martin's production notes, John used Stratocaster on Another Girl. The guitars used for the track were George on Gibson J-160e acoustic playing the rhythm, John on Fender playing on 2nd and 4th beat, Paul on Casino playing lead fills.

Ondra

 

John and George were photographed playing with each other's volume controls (not a euphamism) at the Baby's in Black session in fall 1964 so I suppose they could have been looking for that capability in early 1965. Interesting!
As to what is played on a strat on Ticket to ride, my GUESS (for what THAT'S worth) is that George plays the riff on his 12 string, John plays strat on the block chords, Paul plays Hofner bass, plus Casino on the overdubbed low As during the verses and of course the solo lick.

 

That sounds about right. Definitely sounds like a Strat playing those overdubbed low A notes.
But I'm curious, everyone says a 12-string is used on this song. Is that definite? Just sounds like a jangly 6-string to me. George never played it live on 12-string, although that would have made the lead fills difficult. If I play the intro on my Strat on the bridge pickup, it sounds pretty close to me.

 

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There actually 4 guitars on Ticket To Ride not 3. See my post #68.

Track layout is as follows:
Track 1: Drums, bass (Ringo, Paul)
Track 2: Guitars (George on 12string Rick, John playing just rhythm, on strat?)

overdubs
Track 3: Vocals (John and Paul)
Track 4: Vocal double track John, Ringo on tambourine, Paul lead guitar Casino, George on Stratocaster (doubles bass, fade in chords with volume on "ri hi hide" during the chorus).

It's not just a guess it's sourced from George Martin's production notes (see Recording The Beatles book), including the use of Stratocaster by George.

Ondra

 

So it is DEFINITELY a 12-string on the intro then?
Interesting about the volume swells on TTR. Makes me think I may be right about the use of a Strat and not a volume pedal on Yes It Is/I Need You/Wait.

 

It's definitely 12string Rick! My bandmate has the 12string and Vox AC30 with top boost and the sound I got was spot on, no room left for speculation.
Plus, George himself said that Ticket To Ride is the last song for which he used his first 12string Rick.
You're right, he used 6string for live shows but that sound never comes even close to the recording. However, he must have used it for the BBC rendition as heard on the official 2CD, that IS the sound.

Ondra