"John Lennon Sings the Great Rock and Roll Hits"-Legit copy?

Kind of, yes, but that is not what I am looking for here. Adam VII was a legit label that tried to pull a fast one here as many know. I am just looking for a legit Adam VIII pressing.

 

I was joshing, but will say that Adam VIII pressings were hardly known for quality-- Morris Levy did everything on the cheap and probably used the same pressing plants the bootleggers did. (I have some oldies comps he did, and they're awful). So while an original copy is cool to have for historical purposes, it will never be a great quality record.

 

I have never seen a legit copy without the hand etched number on the label. Because if was on the printers plate it has to be on the label of all original copies. I would suggest that anyone who bought the Lp from the TV ad would have the hand etched number on the label. The number is found on side 1. One other thing to look for is on all the original copies John's shoulders are clearly visible in the front cover photo. On the fakes they used a cropped photo eliminating John's shoulders.

 

OK, after doing what research I could on the interwebs I am even more confused.
My copy seems to be full of contradictions.

According to the internet;
Fake copies will have thicker vinyl-mine is the same weight as the other Adam VIII lp`s I own.

Fake copies may or may not have "Bell Sound" stamped in the dead wax.
Mine has "Bell Sound" as well as the cat. no. and a hand etched "Joe" matching other Adam VIII lp`s I own in every way, hand etched writing is from the same person.
This also matches poster Feinstei9415`s copy bought from the original TV offer;

From Feinstei9415 ; My genuine copy (I bought mine mail-order when it was first advertised on TV) has three things stamped into the runout grooves (I think that's what they're called -- I'm talking about the area after the songs near the label)....
"1) "Joe" written in cursive letters (on both sides)
2) The "Bell Sound" logo (on both sides)
3) A 8018 A (on Side 1) and A 8018 B (on Side 2)

Also, legit copies copies will not cat. no. etched into the label on side one. I did find some images of this on-line, very odd.
However, Feinstei9415`s copy did not have this feature, nor does mine.

Fake labels will look ragged and have a very dull finish. My label looks totally professional, are perfectly cut, centered and glossy.
Print is crisp.

Fakes will have "John Lennon Sings the Greatest Rock and Roll Hits" instead of "Great". Mine says "Great".

Fakes crop out Lennon`s shoulder on the cover, mine is not cropped.

Fakes will have blurry images of the two albums advertised on the back cover. Mine are a bit blurry, yes, but everything else is crisp.

Fakes will often be printed on slicks applied to the cover stock. Mine is printed right on the posterboard just like the other Adam VIII LP`s I own.

So, as you can see , this is very confounding !

I am wondering how accurate the interweb experts are on determining fakes from legit copies. It looked like a lot of them just copied the same info. from somewhere.

Anyone else have any ideas ? Why would a copy have correct deadwax info. and not be legit ?

 

In my experience the dead wax etchings / stampings are not a reliable way to tell genuine from fake as some of the good fakes have added the missing info.

I have had a few genuine copies and more than enough fakes in the last 20 years to give you a good idea of what to look for.

Back cover lp advertisements - to the naked eye the small print in the boxes looks a bit out of focus on both genuine and the fake copies. Using a good magnifying glass you can easily read this tiny print on a genuine copy. This print on the fakes will still be very hard to read even with a magnifying glass.

Only the genuine copies have the record number hand etched on the side 1 label. This was done on the printing plate so it is registered in exactly the same place on every legit Lp. In my experience if it is not on your Lp it is a fake.

There are some very good fakes out there but the above two details they did not replicate very well on any of the fakes.

Lastly the printed inner sleeve is a good indicator of fake vs legit.

Hope this helps

 

Thanks !
RE; dead wax infor-my deadwax info. is precisely the same as on other legit Adam VIII titles (comps of pop songs) down to having the Bell Sound stamp and identical hand etched "Joe", obviously done by the same hand. I just don`t know how this could be replicated unless the original parts were used. Perhaps Levy pirated himself after the injunction as a way the wring some more money out of this "venture" ?

As for the engraved cat. no. on the label, Feinstei9415 bought his copy at the time, ordered from the TV ad and his copy did not have this feature on the label.

 

Can't really comment on Feinstei9415's copy not having seen it. But if it's a genuine copy it has the record number hand etched on the label. It is hard to detect but tilted at the right angle under a strong light it is readable.

 

Picked up a copy of this today that is still in shrink wrap. I havent bothered to open it.

Fakes will have "John Lennon Sings the Greatest Rock and Roll Hits" instead of "Great".

Mine has "Great" on the spine and cover. But the cover photo is cropped, with Lennon's shoulders not seen. So I'm pretty sure I have a fake copy here. And I am pretty sure that fakes exist that dont have the "Greatest" typo included. Thoughts?

 

I wish I could help, I still have not figured out if mine is legit or not. There seems to only be one source for determining what is legit and who knows if this is really correct. Mine seems to be full of contradictions.

Open yours and take a look at the dead wax.

Mine has the Bell Sound stamp as well as other hand etched info that matches other Adam VIII Ltd. albums I have. Not sure how this stuff can be faked.

 

This is from Goldmine in 2010 which seems to be authored by a rep from Heritage Auction House (reputable dealer) Mr. Neely may be a member here?

Sound Advice: Lennon ‘Roots’ album has value — if authentic


By TIm Neely

(Courtesy of Heritage Auction Galleries)

But be forewarned: Roots has been counterfeited. So you will have to prove that yours is original. Here are the three best ways to do so:

1. Check the spine. All original copies have the word “Great” as part of the title. Many of the counterfeits have the word “Greatest” instead of “Great” on the spine.

2. Check the inner sleeve. I hope you saved it, because all authentic copies came with a printed inner sleeve. None of the fake copies have this; they have generic white sleeves.

3. Check the ad for the “Soul Train” album on the back cover. The counterfeits tend to have blurry, almost unreadable, print on that ad, whereas on the original, it is crisp and clear.

 

I am really confused too.
I bought my copy through the mail in the seventies but not through the tv ad.
My album cover seems like a fake.....pasted on slick, the word GREAT on front but GREATEST on the spine, no shoulders, etc.....also no printed inner sleeve.
....But the vinyl dead wax matches your...the numbers A8018A and A8018B with Bell Sound stamped and Joe in cursive on both sides.
The vinyl is not thick and the label is orange and not ragged and with sharp lettering.
Maybe there were a lot of extra vinyl that was not destroyed and inserted into fake covers....Ha!

 

Thanks for posting this ! Another piece in the puzzle. There only seems to be one source after multiple searches and questions here as to what constitutes a legit copy.
An earlier poster on this thread said he did buy his from the TV ad at the time and it does NOT have the etched serial no. in the label .

The origination of the oft-cited source for what constitutes a legit copy is vague at best.

I think that while what the one source indicates -may- be true, it may not be the whole story and there may be more than 1 legit version of this.

Mine, and yours, were obviously using the original plates. How else to account for the dead wax info ?

I would love to hear from others on this, maybe we can crack the code !

 

Having owned several genuine copies (bought my first from the TV ad) and countless bootleg copies there is one thing that constitutes a genuine issue. Regardless of what you think you may have if the record number is not hand etched on the label you have a copy. Why is this so? When the printing plate was struck for the record label the record number was etched onto the printing plate. Thus every copy that originated from Adam Vlll has the record number etched on the label. If it is not etched on the label it did not come from the original source plate. And no there was not multiple plates made as this run was small due to the swift legal action. Every original issue Roots Lp I have had or seen has the number etched on the label. Every fake does not have this. Not many absolutes in life by this is one of them.

Interesting to note every fake came in a plain white inner sleeve. All the originals I have had, had the Lp's printed inner sleeve (some in very poor condition). Not an absolute but a good indicator.

 

This thread sent me to the album's Wikipedia page to brush up on its history...that's the first time I've ever heard Lennon himself ordered a copy of the album! (He was reportedly disappointed at how long delivery took - so what else is new?)

 

Well, that number etched on the label sounds like the definitive item. Thanks for the details.

 

Doesn't surprise me - he was known to have collected Beatles bootlegs, too.

 

Yeah, this is the exact same, and only, info I can find. Where did you get yours if I may ask since I can not find the original source for this ? We do have personal conflicting info. however from some posters here.

How would a stamped Bell Sound be faked and why would they bother I wonder ? Folks really were not heavy into deadwax info. at the time as I recall.

 

OK, but what about the deadwax info being the same, the hand etched"Joe" (I have this exact same signature written in the same hand on other Adam VIII Ltd releases) and the stamped Bell Sound ? What could the explanation be for this ?

Cool you got yours from the TV ad, a great first hand account ! Wish I bought it at the time.

 

Maybe the counterfeiters had Bell make their stampers?

 

I guess bootleggers can pretty much replicate just about anything and a Bell Sound stamp or Joe is likely not that hard to do if you have the right equipment or access to the right equipment. Why didn't they fake the hand etched number on the label? Simple they didn't know about it, and didn't care.

 

With collectible labels or records of interest: Get a cheap, common record from the same era on the same label (that likely wouldn't have been counterfeited), study it's typefaces, how the cover is manufactured, the vinyl pressing and it's distinguishable hallmarks, it's thickness, the deadwax markings, the printing of the label and the cover. Studying such records gives you a feel for how to spot a genuine record on said label, it's very educational and cheap insurance to enable you to spot a genuine record with better odds of it being the real one when you're looking at a high value collectible.

 

I really do NOT remember the exact source(s) that I used when I made the post from Sept 2015. BUT I likely did some online research and made a brief summary of what I found. I do NOT own a copy, though, so my info is secondhand.

 

Duplicating a stamp isn't very easy, and there would most likely be small but noticeable differences between a fake and real Bell stamp. I think Bell made the stampers for the counterfeit.

 

Did Bell also print the stampers for the counterfeit Let It Be albums, also in the early 1970s? Maybe Morris Levy had a hand in both of those.

 

Fair-nuff ! Didn`t notice how old these posts were, thanks !