John Prine: Bruised Orange: Song-By-Song Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by RayS, Jan 13, 2017.

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  1. HominyRhodes

    HominyRhodes Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago
    Thanks a lot for the compliment. And your post reminds me that Prine, after being subjected to some of that "New Dylan" treatment in the early '70s, commented about some of the hype-sters in Onomonopia (Sweet Revenge, 1973): "Sixty-five agents sitting on a fence, singing, hey brother, 'Look what we got for you...'"
     
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  2. RayS

    RayS A Little Bit Older and a Little Bit Slower Thread Starter

    Location:
    Out of My Element
    On the very same album that contains "Get out of this town by noon (GET OUT!), You're coming on way too soon (RIGHT NOW!), And besides that, we never liked you anyway". :)
     
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  3. HominyRhodes

    HominyRhodes Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago
    Thanks for putting up the live version (I don't have that album -- yet :) ). I think JP might have originally just called it "My Woom-an" or something like that, but took his Army buddy's approval of it to heart. Cool backstory, typical JP.

    I left the Bruised Orange LP on my turntable, and have been listening to each track individually as you call them out, and it's been great to hear them again this way, with fresh ears. The studio version of Aw, Heck took me back to the Johnny Cash feel of There She Goes on Side 1, although it's a love song instead of a kiss-off. And I think that with some reworked lyrics it would have made a nice Johnny & June Carter duet, like Jackson, If I Were A Carpenter, or Long Legged Guitar Pickin' Man (another contender: Baby Ride Easy by Carlene Carter & Dave Edmunds).

    Song gets a solid :righton: from me. And that jumping-off-a-cliff lead guitar accompaniment that you pointed out certainly IS a nice touch.
     
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  4. RayS

    RayS A Little Bit Older and a Little Bit Slower Thread Starter

    Location:
    Out of My Element
    I had a similar thought regarding Johnny as the slap bass reappears on "Aw Heck". Reminiscent (or perhaps prescient is a better word) of the slap playing that Dave Jacques would be doing for low these many recent years with Prine on the road.



    (Dave disappears from view about a minute in, but you get the idea)
     
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  5. RayS

    RayS A Little Bit Older and a Little Bit Slower Thread Starter

    Location:
    Out of My Element
    Track 8 - "Crooked Piece of Time"



    Things got rough
    things got tough
    things got harder than hard
    We were just trying to make a livin'
    in our back yard

    We were born too late died to soon
    anxiety's a terrible crime
    if you don't come now don't come at all
    'cause it's a crooked piece of time.

    It's a crooked piece of time that we live in
    a crooked piece of time
    all in all and all in all
    It's a crooked piece of time.

    Yesterday morning an ill wind came
    blew your picture
    right out of the picture frame
    even blew the candle out
    from underneath the flame
    Yesterday morning an ill wind came.
     
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  6. RayS

    RayS A Little Bit Older and a Little Bit Slower Thread Starter

    Location:
    Out of My Element
    Todd Snider's cover featuring John. Personally, I don't care much for the tempo and John's voice is rather shot. But YOU might like it. :)



    Even more Midwestern existentialism

    This song seems to function on two levels. Level #1 - there she (the girl in the black hair) goes, again. Her departure is described in a half-funny, half-sad fashion, as something of an otherwordly event. He didn't take her picture out of the frame, the wind somehow did it, and the flame is still there (he still loves her) but it's the candle (her) that's gone. The man is a poet folks. Level #2, at least as I hear it, is about the general anxiety in the USA in the mid to late 70s, as another Great Depression seemed to possibly loom.

    Here's a really good example of what I'm talking about: Buying Time »

    I don't think Prine intended it as such, but I also hear in this song the notion that every generation thinks their generation is special and unique, dealing with situations overwhelming and complex that no generation has faced before, and that no future generation is likely to have to deal with. The rest of history is linear, but WE live in a crooked piece of time.
     
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  7. Zeki

    Zeki Forum Resident

    Crooked Piece of Time: I don't pay much attention to the girl in this one. Instead, to me, it's the bleakness of economic times. I think of the painting of those two dour looking folks, American Gothic (?), when I hear this. Though their background is a farm while Prine paints an image, again to me, of a backdrop of someone living in a rundown house in a nondescript small town.

    Edit: I should add that I like the song!
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2017
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  8. Bruce M.

    Bruce M. Forum Resident

    Location:
    Hilo, HI, USA
    I am coming late to this thread and feel guilty that I somehow missed it. That said, "Bruised Orange" is one of my favorite JP albums -- hell, one of my favorite albums by anyone, anywhere, anytime. Oddly, it didn't make a huge impression on me when it was released. Having been a huge fan of his early stuff, I think I still wanted more material like his first 2 albums. But some years later, my significant other died and I listened to the title song again and it just felt like the story of my life.

    Hey, it ain't such a long drop don't stammer don't stutter
    From the diamonds in the sidewalk to the dirt in the gutter
    And you carry those bruises
    To remind you wherever you go.

    I love this song, even though it still chokes me up. My only regret is that Roy Orbison never covered it. That would have been extraordinary.
     
  9. Bruce M.

    Bruce M. Forum Resident

    Location:
    Hilo, HI, USA
    "Sabu Visits the Twin Cities Along" is probably my second favorite song on this album, after the title song. It's sad, wistful and yet for me at least there's an undercurrent of hope. And Prine's wordplay is just perfect. I can't listen to the airlines lost the elephant's trunk without smiling.
     
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  10. RayS

    RayS A Little Bit Older and a Little Bit Slower Thread Starter

    Location:
    Out of My Element
    Track 9 - "Iron Ore Betty"



    I'm going steady with Iron Ore Betty
    And she's goin' steady with me
    We receive our mail in the same mailbox
    And we watch the same TV
    I got rug burns on my elbows
    She's got 'em on her knees
    Yeah, I'm goin' steady with Iron Ore Betty
    And she's going steady with me.

    Hey, I been pickin' my brains out
    I been workin' at the hardware store
    I been trying to put a chicken in the window
    Chase away the wolf from the door
    Betty's been down in the iron ore mine
    Bringing home energy
    Yeah, I'm goin' steady with Iron Ore Betty
    And she's goin' steady with me.

    I been speaking to her in English
    She's been speakin' in the English too
    We always speak the same language
    'cause we're always gettin' thru
    I met her at a dance at the union hall
    It was a night with Daddy G.
    Yeah, I'm goin' steady with Iron Ore Betty
    And she's goin' steady with me.
     
  11. RayS

    RayS A Little Bit Older and a Little Bit Slower Thread Starter

    Location:
    Out of My Element
    A performance of much more recent vintage, complete with a (tiny bit) of back story about the song.



    Surely there's some double entendre in the title that has simply eluded me all these years.

    Much like "I'll Be Your Baby Tonight" is something of a musical non-sequitur, closing Dylan's otherwise austere "John Wesley Harding" album with some country lightness and presaging the coming of "Nashville Skyline", "Iron Ore Betty" (while the penultimate track here) hints at what is to come on the "Pink Cadillac" album.

    Back when albums had two sides, it was not an uncommon practice for producers to put the perceived "filler" material near the end (but not AT the end) of side 2. I think "Iron Ore Betty" is that perceived filler. It moves along fairly well in its own rockabilly/Bo Diddlley beat way, but it doesn't seem to say a whole heck of a lot - except when it tells us about the sex life of Betty and the narrator, and then it's TMI (near-impossible for the rug burn descriptions to not lead to visuals).

    Was the story of two people happily "living in sin" a shocker in 1978? Was the song, like "Crooked Piece of Time" tinged with contemporary references to difficult economic times, and the 70s energy crisis? (Does Prine know that one can't derive energy from iron ore? Is he just putting us on?)

    It's probably coincidental, but reading about "Paradise" last night, it turns out that what Prine thought was an "abandoned old prison" was actually an abandoned factory for refining iron ore. While Paradise had been found to be a rich source of coal (too rich for its own good, obviously), it failed as an iron mining town.
     
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  12. Zeki

    Zeki Forum Resident

    Iron Ore Betty: I like the song. An upbeat number to change the pace. I've been listening to these, day by day, on the way to the dog park. This time, though, after listening through, it prompted me to put on Elvis Costello! :D

    Note: my dog likes Iron Ore Betty, too.
     
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  13. Bruce M.

    Bruce M. Forum Resident

    Location:
    Hilo, HI, USA
    Iron Ore Betty is a pleasant change of pace, but it's not the sort of thing I buy John Prine albums for. Nothing against it, but it's not one of those songs that really speaks to me.
     
  14. RayS

    RayS A Little Bit Older and a Little Bit Slower Thread Starter

    Location:
    Out of My Element
    "Iron Ore Betty" to Elvis Costello ... I'm thinking "King of America".
     
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  15. RayS

    RayS A Little Bit Older and a Little Bit Slower Thread Starter

    Location:
    Out of My Element
    ... And to wrap it up ...

    "The Hobo Song"



    There was a time
    When lonely men would wander
    Thru this land
    Rolling aimlessly along
    So many times
    I've heard of their sad story
    Written in the words
    Of dead men's songs.

    Down through the years
    Many men have yearned
    For freedom
    Some found it
    Only on the open road
    So many tears of blood
    Have fell around us
    'cause you can't always do what you are told.

    Please tell me where
    Have all the hobos gone to
    I see no fire burning down
    By the rusty railroad track
    Could it be that time
    Has gone and left them
    Tied up in life's eternal traveling sack.

    Last Sunday night
    I wrote a letter
    To my loved one
    I signed my name
    And knew I'd stayed away
    Too long
    There was a time
    When my heart was free to wander
    And I remember as I sing
    This hobo song.
     
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  16. RayS

    RayS A Little Bit Older and a Little Bit Slower Thread Starter

    Location:
    Out of My Element
    When I started this thread 10 or so days ago, I felt there was something of a theme across the album, but I had no plan to tie this album together as if it were part of a course on Existentialist Lit. But here we are at the end of the album, and I can't help but do so. If you thought my earlier posts were long-winded and didactic, you may want to skip over this one and check into a "What if ..." or "Worst 5 songs" thread. :) (Definitions below are not mine, but cut and pasted after a quick Web search.)

    There are 4 "A"s central to existentialist literature.

    ANGST (a feeling of deep anxiety or dread, typically an unfocused one about the human condition or the state of the world in general)

    "Things got rough, things for tough, things got harder than hard"
    "You can gaze out the window, get mad and get madder, Through your hands in the air, say 'What does it matter?"
    "I'm wondering if I'm gonna see tomorrow."
    "Well there must be something somewhere, that makes me want to hurt myself inside."
    "We were born too late, died too soon, anxiety's a terrible crime."

    ALIENATION (Alienation refers to the estrangement that occurs in the relation between an individual and that to which he or she is relating. This break in the relation occurs in a variety of forms, such as the estrangements between an individual and his or her social community, natural environment, own self, or even God.)

    "I don't think they ever even noticed me."
    "We tried to talk things over but the judge wouldn't budge."
    "If you don't want my love ..."
    "My heart's in the ice house, come hill or come valley"
    "There was a time when lonely men would wander, Through this land, rolling aimlessly alone."
    "You become your own prisoner, wrapped up in a trap, of your very own chain of sorrow."
    The entirety of "Sabu Visits the Twin Cities Alone"

    ABSURDITY (An important component of existentialist philosophy is the portrayal of existence as being fundamentally irrational in nature. Whereas most philosophers have attempted to create philosophical systems that produce a rational account of reality, existentialist philosophers have focused upon the subjective, irrational character of human existence.)

    "My very first job I said thank you and please, They made me scrub a parking lot down on my knees. Then I got fired for being scared of bees, And they only give me fifty cents an hour."
    "Yeah, we were regular Dr Jekylls, But together we were Mr. and Mrs. Hyde."
    "Starts drinking heavy, gets a big red nose. Beats his old lady with a rubber hose, Then he takes her out to dinner and buys her new clothes. That's the way that the world goes 'round."
    "I was crying ice cubes hoping I'd croak, When the sun come through the window, the ice all broke. I stood up and laughed thought it was a joke."
    "An altar boy's been hit by a local commuter, Just from walking with his back turned, To the train that was coming so slow."
    "Wondering how a man could send a child actor, To visit in the land of the wind chill factor."
    "Sabu was sad the whole tour stunk, The airlines lost the elephant's trunk."
    "I could jump off a cliff and never have no fear, Just as long as she is near."

    AUTHENTICITY (In existentialism, authenticity is the degree to which one is true to one's own personality, spirit, or character, despite external pressures. I'll add - Authenticity is generally considered an overarching life goal for practitioners of existentialism)

    "I could run stark naked and live in and old oak tree, Just as long as she's with me."
    "Father forgive us for what we must do."
    "But it don't do no good to get angry, So help me I know, For a heart stained in anger grows weak and grows bitter."
    "Down through the years, Many men have yearned for freedom,. Some found it, Only on the open road."

    So that's how I see "The Hobo Song" fitting into the puzzle - not a lament for those transient folks, but a lament for the fact that they are gone ("hobo" and "homeless" are very different things, at least in the romanticized world) - the world has taken those who "yearned for freedom" and tied them up in "life's eternal traveling sack" (the societal world that doesn't allow for a honest man to drift and roam). As Dylan suggested, being condemned to drift, and being kept from drifting, may be equally negative depending on your personal desires.

    This was already my favorite Prine album coming in, but I have really taken on a deeper appreciation of it in the last 10 days. TOO deep, some (many) might say. But absurd as my dissection of the album may seem, I refuse to alienate myself from my authentic self - the guy who really likes to dig into the lyrics to enrich his own experience. I already have more than my share of angst these days (some humans, as we already suspected, are proving not to be human), I don't need any more. :)
     
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  17. HominyRhodes

    HominyRhodes Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago
    Whoops, sorry, a few days late again...

    re: Crooked Piece of Time

    First of all, I gotta say, a fresh re-listen of this Prine recording unexpectedly pointed me to some of Bob Dylan's tracks from the mid-1970s , including Tough Mama (there is apparently no You_Tube clip of the Planet Waves version, so here's an *Amzone* thirty-second sample, if anyone hasn't heard the track):

    Amazon.com: Tough Mama: Bob Dylan: MP3 Downloads »

    The rhythmic funkiness of the drums and guitars on JP's track sound similar to that, I think, although the gospel-tinged piano and background vocals add a little touch of religious revival, too. I think your interpretation of the lyrics to Crooked Piece of Time is very perceptive, as usual (and yes, the man IS a poet). On the surface, I always figured the song was about a time warp of some kind (back to the Great Depression, as you said), with the last verse possibly describing someone in distress who's veering even further into a surreal hall of mirrors. I can't help but think that if Prine had written just a few more verses to the piece, fleshing things out a bit more, something more substantial would have been revealed.

    re: Iron Ore Betty
    Previous posts have covered it well, and I have little to add. It's a toe-tapper with *chicken-pickin'*, a rhythmic groove piece that fits in well with the overall sound of the album. Lesser artists would kill to be able to come up with album "filler" like this, though.

    Also...uh-oh -- looks like more Bruce connections:

    "Iron Ore Betty" John Prine (released 1978)
    I met her at a dance at the union hall
    It was a night with Daddy G.
    Yeah, I'm goin' steady with Iron Ore Betty
    And she's goin' steady with me.


    "Working On The Highway" Bruce Springsteen ( released 1984)
    I met her at a dance down at the union hall
    She was standing with her brothers, back up against the wall
    Sometimes we'd go walking down the union tracks
    One day I looked straight at her and she looked straight back...

    ...and "Quarter To Three" -- the Gary US Bonds song, inspired by "A Night With Daddy G." (Gene Barge) -- was one of Springsteen's regular concert showpieces back in the 1970s.

    Clearly, Bruce MUST have had a copy of Bruised Orange in his collection, and I'm sure he listened to it more than once
     
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  18. HominyRhodes

    HominyRhodes Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago
    Stunning post, truthful as can be, which clearly conveys your understanding of Prine's natural, honest, unpretentious talents.

    When Bruised Orange first came out, I was much younger, and far less experienced in the ways of the world. After listening to the album again this past week, with a few decades of additional life experiences, and the added benefit of the insights and observations from the contributors here, it's now clear to me that it's a much more significant part of the John Prine canon than I previously thought. I'll never listen to this album in the same way ever again, that's for certain.

    "The Hobo Song"
    You explained it so well: "...the world has taken those who "yearned for freedom" and tied them up in 'life's eternal traveling sack' (the societal world that doesn't allow for a honest man to drift and roam)." And as always -- John Prine doesn't like that, doesn't understand it, and wants to know why humans treat other humans the way they sometimes do. The basic theme of the song, of course, harkens back to hundreds of other folk-country-blues ballads (and has Ramblin' Jack Elliot, among others, helping out in the chorus), but leave it JP to still be thinking about, and singing about, those old spirits of "the open road" as late as 1978. His concern for humanity is that deep-seated, I guess.

    In some ways I think this album, recorded in Chicago with many of JPs old friends and musical cohorts taking part, was also a farewell of sorts to the city's folk scene, from which he sprang eight years earlier, after quitting his day job on the mail route. The Hobo Song credits reveal that Prine had most of the Earl of Old Town regulars on hand to sing in the chorus, even the club's owner, Earl Pionke. As far as I know, JP began basing himself out of Memphis and Nashville soon afterwards, and Chicago has become just an occasional tour stop for him ever since. That adds a certain nostalgic glow to this record for me.

    Early version of Song 2, Side 2:


    Thanks again to all for this entire thread.
     
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  19. RayS

    RayS A Little Bit Older and a Little Bit Slower Thread Starter

    Location:
    Out of My Element
    Very nice connections. I had absolutely no clue about the identity of "Daddy G."
     
  20. RayS

    RayS A Little Bit Older and a Little Bit Slower Thread Starter

    Location:
    Out of My Element
    Besides all the songs from 30s and 40s that is conjures, "Hobo Song" also brings "Diamonds in the Rough" to mind a bit as well.

    Looks like our tiny little gathering got a lot out of the thread, and hopefully we initiated a new fan or two who silently lurked. And in case anyone has anything that they'd like to add, we'll leave the light on (for two years, anyway).

     
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  21. Zeki

    Zeki Forum Resident

    Thanks for the running of a great thread, Ray. Enjoyed it, as always.
     
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  22. Bruce M.

    Bruce M. Forum Resident

    Location:
    Hilo, HI, USA
    I'm not going to get into existentialism or the philosophical implications, I just think "The Hobo Song" is a small masterpiece. It's another one I really wish Roy Orbison had recorded.
     
  23. riverrat

    riverrat Senior Member

    Location:
    Oregon
    Reviving this thread to go a bit off-topic, and ask a nerdy pressing minutiae question of the type this forum is famous for..

    Could someone tell me which version of the back cover is the 1st press of this title? I have two PRC copies that have subtle variations in the text below the pic and can't
    determine which one is the earlier press. Discogs indicates that the top image shows the cover for the earlier press, based on the label variations but just wanted to confirm this here.

    GREAT lp BTW. My first and to this day favorite Prine album.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
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  24. DmitriKaramazov

    DmitriKaramazov Senior Member

    I know I am skipping way ahead on this thread —

    but to anyone reading, drop what ever you’re listening to right now and immediately go find Prine’s new one: Tree of Forgiveness.

    My god! It’s not just a great album, it’s truly one for the ages!

    And, I’ve not been a Prine fan — but I am now!

    — David

    @RayS
     
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  25. lemonade kid

    lemonade kid Forever Changing

    Yep. A masterpiece, and I have almost all of Prine's vinyl.
     
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