Joni Mitchell - Mingus - Opinions?

This is definitely one of her most controversial albums, with many people feeling it's boring while others finding it one of her most interesting albums. I've been going through her albums lately and as someone who's really enjoyed her jazz stuff, listened to this one. While upon first listen I definitely didn't care for it, I could see myself liking it more with more listens.

 

We had a discussion of this album not long ago. Joni Mitchell: "Mingus" Song By Song Thread

 

I had the same experience. It’s one of her best albums.

 

I am far more interested in melodies and textures than words so her golden era for me is the run from "Court and Spark" to "Shadows and Light". "Mingus" is almost the culmination of her intersection with jazz in that period though I think of "Don Juan" as the peak achievement.

 

I don't like it. I find it inexplicably boring compared to her records leading up to it. Seems like in her own experimentalism, with what might be considered a Jazz musician's sensibility, she flourished - but in a more overt Jazz situation, she freezes or resorts to cliché.

Particularly don't like Goodbye Pork Pie Hat lyrics. Not sure if they are intentionally odd and jarring or just clumsy. Black musician/underdog position? Hung in a tree/That's unlikely? 'Porkie Pig hat' is definitely a ringer: regardless of the rationale Joni offered in a subsequent interview, Porkie had nothing to do with pork pie hats. And th-th-th-that's all, folks.

 

i consider it an experiment.

whether the experiment succeeded or failed is up to the individual listener.

i think if you did a poll of 'like it, 'don't like it' or 'meh'.....'meh' would win.

 

It's a fascinating document if nothing else. Musically, it took me a while to get into (I'm not a jazz buff, you see) but I really like it now.

I feel it's one of Joni's finest achievements and the perfect late-night listen.

 

I have struggled with this album to some degree over the years but not so much musically as with the chatter between tracks. Sacrilegious or not in my digital library version of the album I have edited out the chatter and now can enjoy the album without the "interruptions".

 

I like it, but - to me - it's the lesser album from the Court and Spark to Mingus run.

 

Excellent in my book. I rate it a 54 out of 53.

 

You obviously have no idea what those lyrics are about. The tune was written by Mingus as a tribute to Lester Young who wore Pork Pie Hats. The lyrics refer to a time in America when (it almost seems like we've gone back there again) black people were treated like second class citizens and interracial relationships were frowned upon.

 

My only complaint about it might be that whenever I listen to it, I wind up singing "God must be a boogie man" randomly as I go about my business for 2-3 weeks afterward.

 

The chatter seems quite Zappaish.

 

I am well aware of the context and meaning - I just don't think the lyrics are all that great.

 

Possibly my favorite Joni album.

 

I concur.

 

I didn’t like it when I bought it on release, but I’ve grown to like it more and more over the years. I listened to it a month or so ago and thought it terrific.

 

Fair enough. I prefer the original instrumental on Mingus Ah-Um. And I like Jeff Beck's version too.

 

I'm still working on this album, I bought everything from Hissing to Shadows in Light since March & this is the only album I'm not in love with. There is something that keeps me coming back though, which is usually a good sign.

The Wolf That Lives In Lindsay is amazing though, really do love that cut.

 

Bought it used on vinyl several years ago. I have to confess, I've only listened to it once, but I was rather pleased with what I heard. The sound on many of the tracks is very rich and lifelike (great Bernie Grundman mastering).

I was a little scandalized that she added vocals to what is probably my favorite Mingus songs (and one of my favorite songs ever), "Goodbye Porkpie Hat". But it was actually done quite well. Great work on here throughout by Joni, Pastorius and Wayne Shorter.

Probably about time for me to get this out again and reevaluate.

 

I think this alludes to one problem with the lyrics--there's a complacency about the present, a sense that racism has been left in the past. "Black musician/ In those days they put him in an/ Underdog position/ Cellars and chitlins." In those days. This was someone who often complained about the music business, the star-making machinery behind the popular song, even at the time. How could she not realize that the Black musician still was Beneath the Underdog? But of course she would like to think that she and her Black beau would not be run out of town or hung from a tree. Indeed, it would be very unlikely--she's a famous white woman. The city is her amusement park. An anonymous person, particularly a Black man, may still have cause to worry, however, in 1949 or in 1979, or now. The past is always with us.

"The sidewalk is a history book/ And a circus/ Dangerous clowns/ Balancing dreadful and wonderful perceptions/ They have been handed/ Day by day/ Generations on down" hints that she might understand that, but then what's with the rest of the song? IDK.

Also I'd have to agree with @Jon-A that the porkpie hat wasn't really associated with Porky Pig, so that's also baffling.

 

Well it's a song about Lester Young who worked in the 30s, 40s and 50s. And things were a lot worse back then. I don't see how the lyrics excuse any present day injustices. Not really a fair criticism. And so what if she added a word or syllable to turn a phrase.

 

I prefer her lyrics to the ones attributed to Rahsaan Roland Kirk:

He put all of his soul into a tenor saxophone,
He had his way of talking, 'twas a language all his own,
Life's story, love and glory, if you listen, when he plays it for you,
Now listen and listen and dig it, can't you dig it?
Lester Young is playing what he's feeling
Dealing and dancing.

Now someone might have told you, Lester Young he's out of style.
But now I'm here to tell you, tell you, Prez is happening now.
Life's story, love and glory if you listen when he plays it for you
Now listen and listen and dig it, can't you dig it?
Lester Young is playing what he's feeling
Dealing and dancing on home.

Or are those Jon Hendricks' lyrics? Anybody know?

 

I'm reasonably sure that interracial relationships were much less risky in 1979 than they were in 1949, in most of the US.

And, y'know, Joni was grafting lyrics onto a classic jazz tune written 20 years earlier, not trying to pass a purity test in oh-so-woke-and-enlightened 2020. BTW, we still have a long way to go.

 

I'm not crazy about Kirk's version, either - but prefer those lyrics...marginally. You're not alone wondering if those are Jon Hendricks' lyrics, but all the attributions I see are to Kirk. (Just checked the record - it says Mingus/Kirk). Joni is the better singer, though.