Do you mind putting 1minute samples of Deceiver from Repertoire and K2 in FLAC? RapidShare is free, fast and easy for uploading files. Here's the first one minute of Deceiver from the W.German LINE RECORDS CD: http://rapidshare.com/files/180828278/deceiver.flac.html
Also, here's The Ripper form the Line Records CD. Very low volume, one of my quietest CDs, but great sound, IMO, check the sample above. Nice dynamic range
Found a K2 version yesterday. Seems to be heavily clipped, so scratch that one out. Still looking for a sample from Repertoire...
I have the Possum Australian Hero Hero which uses the Rodger Bain remix and it sounds quite good. It could possibly have the Line mastering. I have the Repertoire Sad Wings and it is definitely better than the later issues on Koch and Viktor. I am unsure how it compares to the Line and Attic though. I also have the Teicheku Best of which is a comp of the first 2 albums and that is quite natural sounding.
If you think the RCA sound good (which I don't think it does), you should really try to track down the Line Records disc, and/or the Snapper/Repertoire (same mastering) which all sound better than the RCA IMO. The RCA sounds too muddy to me, doesn't seem to be from as good a source as the Line CD. I think the RCA is in the same ballpark sound wise as the Koch. Maybe it's time for another listen though ... (See below. )
OK, I listened in a lot more detail, but then here are some graphs. Waves: Line then RCA then Snapper (Repertoire) The wave shots partially show what I heard. The Line CD is the most balanced, almost dull in comparison to the other 2, but eminently more crankible; the RCA and Snapper are definitely brighter. (The RCA isn't "muddy", just what I thought I remembered.) But the odd thing about the RCA, is that it's the right channel that seems to have boosted highs, not the left, so much. Now look at the waves again: see how the right channel for the RCA is "noisier", seemingly more "dynamic" than the right channel for the Line CD? This is key, and I've mentioned this before in other threads: artificially boosting the highs for a CD seemingly gives you more dynamic range, but it's artificial. Also note that for the Line, the left channel is more dynamic than the right, but for the RCA, that is flip-flopped. The channels are not reversed, just that the RCA has so much high freq boost applied apparently only to the right channel, that it reverses the balance the Line has. I do think the Snapper sounds better than the RCA, but well, it has clipped peaks (compression?) that the other 2 don't have. But its boosted highs are at least balanced across both channels. EQ comparison: Both the RCA and Snapper are smiley faced vs the Line, the RCA more so. When I listen for comparison, I always focus on the highs 1st. I only "hear" boosted lows if it's really bad. In this case, I didn't notice that so much in comparison to the boosted highs. Notice that the Snapper's boosted highs peak lower in freq than the RCA. The RCA has too much sizzle to the cymbals. The Snapper has more sizzle (but less in a relative sense to the RCA) to the snare drum hits.
I'll put the comparison for Rocka Rolla here because it's CD history is more similar to Sad Wings than to the CBS/Sony/Columbia discs. Same-o as for Sad Wings: the German Line CD, the early RCA disc, and the Snapper remaster. I *know* the Snapper is the same mastering as the Repertoire for Sad Wings. For Rocka Rolla, I presume it is, but I've never checked. Anyway: The listening: the Line is the best, smoothest, laid back, most crankible version. The Snapper is a typical modern mastering not unlike Sad Wings where they emphasized the snare drum (and the guitars fall into that freq area too). I won't post wave shots, but compared to Sad Wings, the Snapper for Rocka Rolla is not so clipped/compressed. The RCA, I was surprised by this one in that it's definitely a better mastering for Rocka Rolla than what they did for Sad Wings. You can see it's smiley faced vs the Line, and those tweaks are more than how the Snapper is eq'ed vs the Line CD, but it's not an atrocious sounding disc. The one thing that strikes me is the increased bass. The EQ is balanced across both channels, unlike for Sad Wings. And the increased bass, while prominent and easy to hear, is more balanced with the boosted highs for RR. And if you look at how the RCA for Rocka Rolla is EQ'ed vs the Line for Sad Wings, the lower freqs are more equally boosted with the highs. For Sad Wings, just too much high freq boost there, only in the right channel, and not balanced enough by boosted lows. (Sad Wings RCA boosts: 6-7 dB for the lows, 15 dB for the highs; RR: 6-7-ish dBs for both the lows and highs.) So the RCA for RR is not a bad sounding disc, just not as good as the Line. IMO. I had this thought a while ago when I listened to the Line for Rocka Rolla, and I'll post it here. This is a really good sounding disc. When I got the Line CD for Sad Wings, I was kind of disappointed. Maybe Sad Wings wasn't recorded as well as Rocka Rolla, I don't know. Just my feeling listening to them both.
I recently picked up the Repertoire Sad Wings Of Destiny cd. It sounds great to my ears. Certainly much better than the Koch version I used to have. I also picked up the Repertoire Rocka Rolla.
I would also like to see some opinions on the various vinyl versions. This thing has been reissued so many times but I still don't have a copy. Time to get one, I think.
I have a Snapper for SWOD, and now I have the opportunity of fetching me a West German Line CD... Is it worth it?
Can't say it's the "best", since I have limited exposure, but I have an RCA pressing dated 1983 that sounds fantastic. "The Ripper" on it is loud at any volume, and I mean that in a good way. Used to have a Janus pressing when I was a teenager, but I got rid of it many years ago and don't really remember how it sounded.
Yes, IMO. I think the Line is the best (for this one and Rocka Rolla). The Snapper/Repertoire (they are the same) is a more "modern" mastering but it's the next best thing to the Line. Honestly, I have both, and I like both for different reasons. But the Line is the best.
The remaster on KOCH is the one you DON'T want... It's just brutal !! Those two above are the only two I'll ever need
Kevin, I agree with your detailed comments on the WG Line, the Repertoire/Snapper and RCA. In its own right, the RCA may be considered good sounding, but in comparison to the Line and those early masterings mentioned below it can't keep up. "Artificial" is the perfect word to describe the RCA's sound; really not as smooth and breathing as the Line. However, I just don't understand why so many people like the Snapper/Repertoire so much. The trademarks of the modern mastering (much louder level, upfront snare) result in a sound that not exactely warm but even sterile, and not as relaxed, breathin' and dynamic as earlier masterings when being cranked up. There are two other early masterings which I would recommend, both very dynamic and breathing, analog sounding and very crankable: "The Collection", a 1989 release of both SWOD and RR on one CD. There is a UK pressed disc (from the early 1990ies I suppose) and one made in Switzerland, which is the first press. This is the one to get (but difficult to pick), awesome sound, in the same league as the Line, but not as quite, and less muddy; however, the Line is just the closest to an analog sound imho. The UK pressed Collection sounds somehow strange in the hi frequencies, not as "free" and transparent as it should sound. As if the sound can not really spread around from the hi hats into the room; just difficult to explain. Still worth a try, though, and not that difficult to get by. The Japan TECP 25386 (about 1993...or 1991??) white faced disc: dynamic, breathing and warm sound, coming shortly after the Collection. The back side of the booklet is even showing an unmodified reprint of the original vinyl's backcover with the "correct" tracklist (Prelude as the first song), while on the backcover of the case, they changed it to the typical sequence, starting with Victim of Changes. I recently got a copy of the Attic, which is shown in the photo above, but didn't do a close comparison. I just noticed that it's not as smooth sounding as the Line, Collection and Japan, but of course easily better than the RCA and the Rep/Snap, if my memory doesn't delude me. I don't see a reason to spend a penny on the most recent re-rleases by Koch and Translux. I have the mini LP version from Japan (K2HD, with HDCD encoding) but it is very loud and compressed, very sterile and too much "in your face". Not the kinda sound I like.
Adular Zech- Great review. I finally got the Line CD for Hero Hero with the remixed Rocka Rolla. Never had that version before. "Interesting ..." is all I say about that one ... Can anyone with the Attic of Sad Wings post a sample? The 1st min of Genocide? I'd love to compare to what I have.
I just got this on eBay for $36 (after shipping from Japan). When I get it I'll post the waves and the EAC. Can't wait to get it. I just finished repurchasing the original CBS CD's from "Sin After Sin" through "Painkiller". Only "Rocka Rolla" to go!
O dear. What a mistake I've made. I've mixed something up in my memory. Today I listened to some songs on the Japanese white faced CD of SWOD again after a very long time at a louder level and I have to correct my review. The sound does have full dynamics and is crankable indeed, but....there has been some EQing. The hi hats have been turned up, yet not in a bad way (not "sharp" or shrill which is typical for modern masterings and remasterings; I am allergic to that kind of sound). But how did I forget that noise reduction has been used on that mastering? This is obvious at the quiet moments (beginning of Dreamer Deceiver and Epitaph). I can't even find the icon with the man hiding under a chair.