Julian Cope Album by Album by Single by EP by Pseudonym Thread

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Summer of Malcontent, May 29, 2017.

  1. citizensmurf

    citizensmurf Ambient postpunk will never die

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    Julian Cope & Donald Ross Skinner - Rite

    "The perfect length for a good meditation or a decent shag.” – Julian Cope

    Also, if we live in a world where the word shag has to be circumnavigated for discussion on a music forum, then we have already lost.
     
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  2. Summer of Malcontent

    Summer of Malcontent Forum Resident Thread Starter

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    I'm sure Cope was just talking about birdwatching. It's a great album to watch birds to.
     
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  3. kyodo_dom

    kyodo_dom Forum Resident

    Ahh, your comments about Woden make it sound quite appealing. Thanks! I'm sure there'll be a more fulsome discussion once its turn comes in the thread a bit later on, but I'll now look to snap it up if I come across it. I haven't heard Ambulence in donkey's years. I'll have to dig the CD out when I'm next back in the UK.
     
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  4. oldturkey

    oldturkey Forum Resident

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    I played Rite 2 again today.
    Track 1: Ver is good - I enjoyed the Mellotron and the vocals.
    I also like track 4: The Ringed Hills Of Ver - there's some great echo/reverb on it and it's quite trippy. This is the track with a longer 2001 recorded version on Rite At Ya which is really good also.
    What I can't get into are the two middle tracks.
    Track 2: Hill Of Odin makes me think of the Peggy Suicide 12" b sides which I wasn't too keen on. It really sounds like the last outtake from that LP, and just a bit boring. On a Glastonbury crystal shop merchandise scale I'll rate it 'quartz pebble - three for £2'.
    Track 3: 3D c.o.m.p.o.s.e.r. A great title, but the first 10 minutes of this is like a battle between mid 1970s Tangerine Dream and New Age waterfall music, but New Age wins big time. It picks up in the last 5 minutes with a bit of Moog wave oscillations and variation, but ultimately I really dislike it and I just can't wait for it to end. I'm rating this 'rainbow-coloured plastic unicorn on a plinth'.
     
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  5. oldturkey

    oldturkey Forum Resident

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    Julian Cope - Woden
     
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  6. citizensmurf

    citizensmurf Ambient postpunk will never die

    Location:
    Calgary
    I played Rite 2 almost 3 times over the last week, and I still really love it. The 2nd track is the only slightly less great song for me, but I dig the mellow groove and subtle changes. Ver is an all time classic, and could probably be edited slightly to make it perfect but that would be counter productive. D Composer (not 3D composer) is straight of out a Tangerine Dream, but at the time no one else was aping these sounds so it sounded fresh and still does to me. I also tried to listen to Woden again, but it was in the car and it is a strictly headphone album so I'll save it for when it comes up later on.
     
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  7. Hermetech Mastering

    Hermetech Mastering Mastering Engineer

    Location:
    Milan, Italy
    I know Flinton Chalk and John Higgs. I recently remastered the TC Lethbridge album demos which should be out soonish, with a re-issue of the Higgs 'TC Lethbridge - 200oTC' book. Flint and Cope eventually fell out, as it seems do a lot of Cope's collaborators. :( Flint went on to work a lot with psychedelic pioneer Brian Barritt, on similar stuff (ancient sacred sites in the UK) and wrote a book with Brian about their travels called 'The Road to Tir Na Nog'. I was researching a biography on Brian a few years ago, and got introduced to all these lovely people.
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2017
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  8. oldturkey

    oldturkey Forum Resident

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    Thanks for that info. I am really glad about the reprint of the book - 111 copies is not enough - it sounds like a good story. I'll definitely keep my eyes peeled for that and the demos.
    Re Brian Barritt's books - they're pretty scarce, but I found a 2 part podcast which could be interesting.
    | Category | Brian Barritt
    BTW - I had noticed that about Cope falling out with people! It started way back in time with McCulloch.
     
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  9. Summer of Malcontent

    Summer of Malcontent Forum Resident Thread Starter

    As far as I can tell, Cope released nothing at all in 1998, and not much in 1999:

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    LEPER SKIN: AN INTRODUCTION TO JULIAN COPE 1986-92 (1999)

    Oddball compilation only notable for including a couple of out-of-print b-sides (‘Books’ and ‘Crazy Farm Animal’).


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    ODIN (1999)

    Breath of Odin

    As noted above, this track was actually originally intended for the unreleased third Queen Elizabeth album.
     
  10. EasterEverywhere

    EasterEverywhere Forum Resident

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    I'm sure most Teardrops fans have sought this out on YouTube.This would make a great RSD release.
     
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  11. Hermetech Mastering

    Hermetech Mastering Mastering Engineer

    Location:
    Milan, Italy
    No worries, happy to be able to fill in some of the gaps.

    Flint and John are lovely guys, John lent me his "Road to Tir Na Nog" book for a few months before I interviewed him about Brian. That radio show link you posted is by Den Browne (who is now also a fairly close friend of mine, he used to live with Sid & Nancy and knew many interesting people back in the day, Trocchi etc.), and one of the best intros to Brian Barritt that exists. I have all of Brian's books now (Whisper, The Road of Excess, The Nabob of Bombasta and the final Road to Tir Na Nog, published shortly before he died), I got lucky with them all, scored an original 1971 edition of Whisper from Oxfam for £10!

    Sorry for being slightly off topic!

    Yes, Thighpaulsandra also has a lot of horror stores about Cope. According to some in the know, he's usually OK when he's off the sauce, but that seems to be less and less frequent as time goes on, and his mood, inter-personal relationships and work suffer because of it. :(

    BTW not a huge Cope fan, I need/want to hear a lot more, but I absolutely LOVE the stuff he did with Thighps, highlight for me probably being the 'I Come From Another Planet Baby' CD singles, they meant a lot to me at the time of their release!
     
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  12. oldturkey

    oldturkey Forum Resident

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    I agree about those singles - Ambulence is top drawer. We didn't really talk about the Radio Sit-In, but it is a really good release for fans. Other artists should do that sort of thing instead of dumb outsourced remixes, but there is a bit of character, style and effort required.
    Re Brian Barritt - that radio podcast was excellent actually. The Kosmiche Musik (for PC readers) links were a nice surprise to me. A bit of the music was from Gilles Zeitschiff or Seven Up by Ash Ra Temple. It makes me want to get out my Cosmic Jokers cds. Cope is mentioned towards the end which turns out to be quite amusing, but you can feel a bit of needle there.
    The extract from The Nabob of Bombasta was fantastic. I managed to pick up a copy for £7, but multiply that by at least 10 times if you want to read anything else by him!

    Breath Of Odin was apparently recorded in 1997 (QE2 time I suppose) and released in 1999, so Woden (1998) is the sequel to it. It gets a thumbs up from me - it was used as a meditation disc by Mr & Mrs Cope. It is very calming - I think it is great in the car. It's great for the temperament in busy London traffic or in a tense situation. It would be impossible to get road rage while listening to it.
    However, with this recording being even more relentlessly repetitive than Woden, any slight change in the music is significant, so when the last section which has the loud cymbals/gongs starts up it is quite nerve shattering.
    Whereas with most music that uses drones (such as bagpipes) the drone is in the background, on Odin the drone is the lead feature.
    It does have an aura of ancient music - it could be a bit atmospheric of prehistoric shamanic vocal music, or like Gregorian chant.
    Full marks to Julian for coming up with something totally out there. I like Odin and Woden both.
    It ain't Olivia Newton John and John Travolta.


    The only thing I can think of is HH3 The Modern Antiquarian audiobook excerpts promo (which does have a tiny bit of music on it).
    Did we miss out The Followers Of St Julian 1997 cd? It was made virtually redundant by the double cd reissue of Saint Julian, except for one track the 8 minute Trainsporting (With Interview).
    I have the Leper Skin cd but I don't know where. It does have lyrics in the booklet as I remember. Not a bad introduction cd but doesn't begin to cover it really.

     
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  13. oldturkey

    oldturkey Forum Resident

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    This is pretty good!
     
  14. Hermetech Mastering

    Hermetech Mastering Mastering Engineer

    Location:
    Milan, Italy
    Yep, Ambulance is astonishing! And the Motor Man track. I've still not heard the album it came from, Radio Sit-In right? Think it had a UFO on the cover or something.. Thighps once gave me the lowdown on what gear was used for these but it was years ago and I can't really remember...

    Glad you enjoyed the Brian Barritt radio podcast, it really is great, ey? Den Browne is slowly getting his memoirs together, I think he wants to try and publish as much as possible in text and radio drama format. He's sent me some of his other stuff about living in Paris in the 70's (where I now reside), and it's fabulous. On the TC Lethbridge album there's a track called Bou Sada which is BB reading from his Road of Excess biog. I became really good friends with Liz Elliot who was Brian's partner for 20 years, (and also a partner of Leary's for two years). There's a really good interview with her by my friend, the UK LSD historian, Andy Roberts, here:

    Queen of Hearts: An Interview with Liz Elliot on Tim Leary and LSD - Reality Sandwich

    The full interview is in a recent-ish issue of The Psychedelic Press Journal and Andy's latest book, Acid Drops. I mention her because she was there with BB, Leary, and the band during the recording of Ash Ra's "Seven Up", and has many amazing stories to tell. She's also working on her memoirs! I visited her again with my family this summer and she still has original Walter Wegmuller art on her walls etc. Very fun lady!

    Nabob is great, hilarious, illustrations by Youth (who I saw play with Hypnopazuzu/Current 93 in Berlin a couple of weeks ago), but I think if I could only have one BB book it would The Road of Excess. It's my fave by far. Again, sorry for OT!
     
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  15. Summer of Malcontent

    Summer of Malcontent Forum Resident Thread Starter

    I don't have the Modern Antiquarian promo, and thought it was all spoken word. The Followers of Saint Julian got covered when we did the Saint Julian singles.

    Here's an addenda to cover The Modern Antiquarian!

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    THE MODERN ANTIQUARIAN (1998)

    In Search of Megalithic Britain / The Landscape Temoles: Avebury & the Marlborough Downs / I First Saw Callanish Stones / Fifty Nine Stone Circles in Aberdeenshire / In Dedication: Fron the Hunter

    Promotional CD of readings from Cope’s book, available at Virgin record stores.
     
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  16. Summer of Malcontent

    Summer of Malcontent Forum Resident Thread Starter

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    AN AUDIENCE WITH THE COPE 2000 (2000)

    The Glam Dicenn (Parts 1 & 2) / Holy Mother of God / Born to Breed / Ill Informer / The Glam Dicenn (Parts 3 & 4) / Untitled (hidden track)

    Tour CD.
    Rereleased the following year with a different cover as An Audience with the Cope 2001.
    [​IMG]
     
  17. Summer of Malcontent

    Summer of Malcontent Forum Resident Thread Starter

    This is a really good album. 'Born to Breed' is an excellent raver and 'Holy Mother of God' is one of the most beautiful songs Cope ever released. It's like a lost Fried track.
     
  18. Jarra Lad

    Jarra Lad Forum Resident

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    Jarrow, England
    I really enjoyed this album on a recent revisit and coming after the Rite albums it was a welcome surprise it has proper songs when I picked it up at a Newcastle show. I got the 2001 version.
     
  19. oldturkey

    oldturkey Forum Resident

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    This is a very much undeservedly forgotten album, quite surprising because it was released over two tours 2000 & 2001. I think it is because it is mistakenly thought to be a live album, but it is purely studio (although a lot of it sounds as if it was recorded first take), I think it was intitially sold as a merchandise stall special.
    It really is a compilation of all Julian's various styles and aspects. You get the insanely beautiful melody of Fried, Jehovahkill style krautrock, Brain Donor guitar overload, and Queen Elizabeth/Tangerine Dream style space rock. There's even some Breath Of Odin shamanic vocal digeridu in there.

    Something for everyone!

    The main theme of the album is the turn of the new millenium, which, since Cope is definitely not a Christian, you would think would actually have little meaning for him. This is not however the case, and as he writes in the sleevenotes "We're standing on a crack in time, a time when 2000 and 2001 are upon us, yet we can barely grasp it as we live it", but really the only significance he mentions is that of the Kubrick movie 2001: A Space Odyssey.
    His message is not to pray to Jesus but to celebrate the numerical event by dance, music, party and intoxicants.

    1: The Glam Dicenn (parts 1 & 2) Aside from the apparant descending chord structure typically used in Glam Rock songs (Glam Descend) this phrase is an old Celtic term meaning "improvised insult or satire", but particularly a magical one made by a poet, which was believed to have the power to cause boils to appear on the body of the intended recipient of the ancient slagging in question. I think it's probably directed against the 2000 year old Birthday Boy, but it's not particularly clear: "Cause the Shiniest Guy is telling you lies" "You don't need anyone to pray for you" etc. The millenium/20th cenutry is over - just Do The Doo like Betty Boo and The Bomp and Monster Mash.
    When I first heard this track I thought it was a fairly downbeat track (Julian sounding a bit old and tired) but with quite evocative lyrics for the Millenium Event, and I wished he'd not put so much of a Leslie Cabinet effect on his vocals...BUT...BUT...wait!
    What was happening with that guitar? Doggen is playing like a 14 year old teenager who just got an electric guitar for Xmas and has turned up the feedback to dangerously uncontrollable levels. He is struggling to control it - it's dangerous and exciting, but...it is deliberately like that - what sounds like amateuish out of control guitar is in fact very finely balanced RIGHT ON THE EDGE feedback control. He can't take it any further - he can only just hold those notes, and sometimes he can't. That is what makes this track so good - it is truly beautiful guitar playing.
    After you have heard pt2 pf this track, every time you play the album as you are listening to the low-key pt1 you are just barely containing your anticipation of hearing this guitar playing. It is that good imo. What an amazing track.

    2: Holy Mother of God As OP has pointed out, this is as beautiful a track as Cope ever recorded. It sounds a bit like Fried - I love the keyboard which sounds a bit like Nico's harmonium, and it is gorgeous. There is a beautiful falsetto vocal by Julian, but I don't think it refers to Jesus' Ma. It's got to be Dorian imo ("My head stood up and then It explodes"). It is a bit ambiguous, but the lyrics are printed in the booklet. Also I don't think it refers to Odin's mother Bestia.
    Does anyone else have a clue?

    3:Born To Breed Very like Peggy Suicide's Hanging Out and Hung Up On The Line, which is a good thing. The lyrics are pro-procreation. Quite funny, but maybe not very PC. "We were born to breed, to send our silver seed...But the man in the dress wants you to confess -"Go away now" "No way now!" You've gotta love it.

    4:Ill Informer Starts with a sample of Police radio communication mentioning Waterloo Bridge. Why? Don't know, but I like it. This is a Krautrock-a-thon jam and it's marvellous. It ends with a reprise of the Glam Dicenn theme on piano (probably TPS) and some Odin vocal drones and Queen Elizabeth Minimoog niceness.
    I stuck the garage rock Oh Yeah But Never Like This Before after this on my DAP to extend the album (recorded with TC Lethbridge). It seemed to fit well.

    5: The Glam Dicenn (Parts 3 & 4) Nice Mellotron and Moog finale. Quite distorted at times, and a bit more Odin style.

    6: 5 minutes of silence then an untitled hidden track, which tbh is a bit of a throwaway scat-singing thing which soon outstays its welcome.

    To sum up - a pretty great but off the radar album with some truly fantastic moments not to be overlooked. It's exciting, unpredictable and full of variety. I love it.

    I've got both editions - they are identical except for the covers, and also from the credits for Doggen and Kevlar from TC Lethbridge/Brain Donor, which are credited to 'Nathan C*cks*cker' on 2000 and L.A.M.F. on 2001.
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2017
  20. Summer of Malcontent

    Summer of Malcontent Forum Resident Thread Starter

    [​IMG]
    FLOORED GENIUS 3: JULIAN COPE’S ODDICON OF LOST RARITIES & VERSIONS 1978-98 (2000)

    Collection of rarities and outtakes, all previously unreleased unless noted. I've added the dates and sources where provided in the liner notes, but it would be great if anybody can post their corrections or speculation.

    Ascending – 1998, with Thighpaulsandra.
    Conspiracist Blues – live at The Lemon Tree, Highlands and Islands Tour, 1992.
    Propheteering – 1997 single a-side.
    Mighty Carl Jung – 1993, with Mellotron overdubs added in 1997.
    Highway Blues – 1993. Released on The Big Issue compilation, 1995.
    Sqwubbsy vs. King Plank – Recording date unknown.
    You Can’t Hurt Me Anymore – Mid-90s? Mellotron added and track remixed in 1997.
    Oh Yeah, But Never like This Before – Mid 90s? With T.C. Lethbridge.
    The One I Call My Own – Recording date unknown. Mellotron added and track remixed in 1997.
    Jellypop Perky Jean (alternative version) - 1993
    Tighten-Up – Recorded for Pop, It’s My World (Japan).
    Zabriskie Point – live, 1987 (originally released as part of live ‘World Shut Your Mouth’ video).
    I Need Someone – Mid-80s?
    Prince Varmint – Mid-80s?
    Competition – 1985 single a-side.
    Satisfaction – 1978, with Will Sergeant & Paul Simpson.
     
  21. citizensmurf

    citizensmurf Ambient postpunk will never die

    Location:
    Calgary
    Sorry, been on a major Grateful Dead bender for a couple months, so I'm playing catch up with the Cope. Threw on QE1 and QE2 over the last couple of days. I can tell Summer of Malcontent doesn't really think much of this side project, but I enjoy it for what it is. QE1 is a decent endeavor for what the project was aiming for. I think I first heard this long after I had QE2 (which I bought in 2003), and I would agree the other opinions, that Superstar is somewhat interesting at times, but Avebury doesn't go anywhere.

    QE2 on the other hand has always been a great listen for me, but I'm going to spin it a couple more time before I write anything else.
     
  22. Tripecac

    Tripecac Forum Resident

    Location:
    New Zealand
    Listening to Audience for the first time in probably a decade... It's nice. I'm not a fan of the first (vocal) part of "The Glam Dicenn" (mostly due to the bad sound quality) but I am really enjoying "Born to Breed" and "Ill Informer". I love the Krautrock stuff!

    The mix is a little out of control at times, though. Sometimes I wish he had better editors. In fact, ALL THE TIME I wish he had better editors. Someone to tone down the overly loud synths and sound effects. Why are they mixed so LOUD???
     
  23. Tripecac

    Tripecac Forum Resident

    Location:
    New Zealand
    Listening to Floored Genius 3 now...

    Wow, this is more like it! It starts a bit sloppy and slow, but mid-way through "Mighty Carl Jung" really gets into a groove, and that groove continues into the next couple songs.

    Some of this stuff rivals anything on Autogeddon and 20 Mothers. I wonder why it was excluded... Perhaps because the production isn't quite as polished?

    "King Plank" for instance, has a great vibe to it... but the mix is rough, very rough. Hmm....

    It makes me wish there were a Cope remix project. Polish up the mixes on some of his rougher, but cooler ideas, and then release those as a compilation remix album.

    It reminds me of that Cure remix project... Mixed Up. I liked it. But I know a lot of Cure purists hated it. For some reason. And ditto for the Beatles' Love project.

    Why can't someone take the Love approach to Cope's post-Jehovahkill output?

    (If I were better at producing, I'd volunteer... But, well, if you've heard my stuff, you'll know why I'm not volunteering to remix anything! "Professional" is one of those adjectives that crosses the street whenever it sees me approaching! :) )
     
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  24. citizensmurf

    citizensmurf Ambient postpunk will never die

    Location:
    Calgary
    Okay. I've given QE2 a couple of listens and I'm even more impressed by it than I was before. True, it's a total navel gazing synth journey, and yet it totally captivates me at the same time. It's fully experimental, doesn't pretend to be anything other than what it claims, and succeeds because who the hell else is going to record and release such a record but Cope and TPS.

    Now, maybe some people don't get it, yet I would caution them, there is nothing to get. There is no greater meaning or hidden coolness that evades you. It's just a total sonic adventure without peers. You can hate it, or be indifferent, but this whole "get it" thing is misguided.

    Also I'm not sure who anyone can take an album called Elizabeth ****** without a side of humour, but it's utterly hilarious in its sheer seriousness. Not that it has to make you LOL, but c'mon, this wasn't meant to be something sacred, at least thats my take.
     
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  25. Summer of Malcontent

    Summer of Malcontent Forum Resident Thread Starter

    No takers to sort out the sources of Floored Genius 3? Then we move on to:

    [​IMG]
    DISCOVER ODIN (2001)

    The 18 Charms of Odin / Discover Odin / Ode to Wan (Parts 1 & 2) / Yggdrasil & the Stone of Odin / Road to Yggdrasilbury / I Want to Go Wandering

    Companion CD to British Museum talk / performance.

    I haven't listened to this in ages, But I remember liking it a lot when it came out!
     

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