Justice League (2017)

Lester certainly didn't deserve to be painted as a real life villain in the making of Superman II, and it should indeed be noted that a lot of the late changes to the first movie were his ideas (for one, I have to agree with him that Donner's original missile cliffhanger lacked emotional weight compared with Lois dying as a result of Superman giving priority to stopping the rocket bound for Hackensack - a result of the earlier promise he made to Miss Teschmacher). Donner purposely forgetting Lester's name in the company of Tom Mankiewiecz for their commentary to Michael Thau's 2006 cut of II was a dick move, but there's yet to be a documentary of this fascinating production that isn't biased one way or the other. Similar to how I previously suggested a new edit combining the best Donner and Lester material, I remain hopeful that an impartial committee will eventually tell the story of how Superman II came to be, much like the amazing piece on Superman Lives that was put together by Jon Schnepp, who sadly passed just a week ago.

I was definitely one of those fans who originally bought into Donner's vision for verisimilitude as the better approach, yet in more recent years I've found myself beginning to really appreciate what Lester brought to the table, so to speak. Lester's no slouch as a director, and while it's possible that part of his reason for returning to complete II was financially motivated, he also showed a willingness to grow creatively, with such a major project an ideal opportunity for him to evolve. I'll always be curious to see what Lester might have done using the skills he learned working on big budget effects movies such as Superman II and III, were it not for him withdrawing after the death of close friend Roy Kinnear on the set of The Return of the Musketeers in 1988. This would have been impossible just a few years ago, but I now go back to Superman III more than any of the other Christopher Reeve era films. Lester has grown in my estimation, and where I once carried resentment for how II was finished, III is something I consider the only installment of its parent series that works as a standalone adventure.

Donner has every right to be celebrated for what he did, but the portrayal of Lester and even the Salkinds as the worst kinds of evil is a stance I can't support. Besides, Lester deserves credit for his pioneering work with The Beatles, and I'll always love that he was able to negotiate a reduced fee to include their version of Roll Over Beethoven in III, supposedly because Apple appreciated the free promotion in a major motion picture by someone they regarded a loyal friend. Indeed, it was Paul McCartney who managed to bring Lester out of retirement for the Get Back concert video, plus the director received a Video Vanguard Award from MTV for effectively inventing the modern music video format. Under the circumstances, I'd argue that Lester did more than just shoot the remaining shots needed before Superman II could be released. At the cost of perhaps a little too much verisimilitude, Lester made the sequel more exciting than Donner's take would have been. Most important of all, the slapstick humour many fans complain about shows that his background made him a perfect match for directing a comic book movie. Now, if only someone could entice Lester on camera to give his side of events before it's too late, as his cut of II still holds up as the best... I'd love to know what he might have done to fix the holes from moving the ending of II to replace the missile climax of STM before Donner left production in early '79.

 

Lester quipped in a later (and rare, it has to be said) interview about that; "they said I was the father of MTV... I want a blood test!"

Good luck with getting Lester on camera to discuss the S:TM/II saga; he never has before (save for some brief technical comments about II in his interview with Steven Soderbergh), and now in his late 80's, it's unlikely he ever will, even if asked... he had no contributions on the Anthology Blu-ray set, and that set even went so far as to comment on Lester's absence, stating he "couldn't be tracked down" - which probably means he didn't respond to requests for involvement in said set, in all likelihood - he did comment in one interview that he was tangentially aware of the restored Donner cut, but hadn't yet seen it.

I've heard that Lester actually warned Donner about working with the Salkinds' before he (Donner) took on Superman... interesting if true.

 

The most we'll probably ever hear from Lester about his work on Superman II is the vintage "making of" documentary, which shows him to be a highly articulate person. Sure, it could be argued that he didn't quite get superhero mythology in the way Donner has often claimed to, but he'd already built up a solid reputation of efficient directing under the Salkinds on the Musketeer series, and he did return to that franchise years later (even if the on-set tragedy contributed to his eventual retreat from the movie industry). As I mentioned before, I'll admit to being caught up in the hype that surrounded the release of II in a cut closer to Donner's vision, but I've found myself gravitating to Lester's far less ponderous sequels in recent years. For all their inherent bias, those two DVD commentaries Donner recorded with Tom Mankiewicz are absolutely invaluable as sources of entertainment, highlighting the continued rapport between obviously close friends who shared a creative direction. However, the anti-Salkind rhetoric and retroactive slamming of Lester just seems petty in hindsight. Although it's possible Lester's silence is a result of him not having anything positive to say about his experience on the Superman films, I suspect he's simply too much of a gentleman to engage Donner in a war of words.

My impression of Donner has only solidified with the passing of time, and I now think of him as more a brute force type personality who makes his ideas become reality despite budget or schedule limitations. The stories of how Superman The Movie had to be reworked at the last minute plus his recollections of semi-jokingly clashing with editor Stuart Baird help paint Donner as someone who rarely took the possibility of compromise well, despite his results being of such a high standard that he is almost beyond question. Of course, the Salkinds thought otherwise, with Donner's insistence that long term business partner Pierre Spengler be thrown off the set of II the straw that broke the proverbial camel's back. By contrast, I've heard from quite a few sources that Lester may not have been entirely welcomed as a full replacement by all of the cast and crew who agreed to return under his leadership, but he at least got the necessary shots, plus he offered the actors some additional room for improvisation. Taking my last point to its logical conclusion, Lester supposedly relished the opportunity to show off his background directing lighter material and tried getting Richard Pryor to really loosen up for his show-stealing role in III, even though the comic was at a point where he wanted to diversify artistically, regarding this as an opportunity to break into the mainstream. However, it's not as if the family friendly Superman III was ever an ideal vehicle for Pryor's distinctive brand of edgy, adult humour, and it's clear his ad-libs led to at least one scene needing to be created after the fact... How else can you explain the shot of Superman inexplicably inverting a tornado being shown in brief while Pryor narrates this? Besides, there's a shot in this film's corresponding behind-the-scenes documentary showing him never reading a line the same twice.

Having said all this, III really was a daring move for cinematic superhero adaptations. Donner might have created a more grounded and realistic foundation, but did any of his work in the genre push the envelope by showing Superman corrupted by tar-laced Kryptonite to such a level that he literally split in two, fighting his altruistic half in an extended battle sequence that beat similar themes explored in Fight Club to the punch by 16 years? Also, did Donner spend tens of thousands of dollars by having Atari produce an effects-heavy rocket fight that was so bleeding edge this had to be simplified in order for the monitor shown in the final movie to more closely resemble primitive home computers of the time? How about the extended TV cut of III including scenes of Superman being physically intimate with someone, followed by the implication that a power cut may have cost people their lives? Finally, let's not forget the notorious sight of a character being turned into a cyborg, fulfilling Ilya Salkind's original plan to have Superman face a robotic enemy, never mind the mental scars this left on so many viewers.

In short, a paternity test isn't necessary - Lester was a great director, and I only wish he'd continued to develop his craft further as opposed to spending the last few decades in seclusion from a format he'll be forever remembered as helping to pioneer. For one, the recap that opens Superman II stands as another example of his innate understanding of the music video's ability to succinctly transmit information, being perhaps the most unlikely example you'll ever see. From those iconic Beatles movies to MTV claiming him as its father, Richard Lester deserves equal respect as Donner does for his adding verisimilitude to the vocabulary of the wider Superman fan community. Even now, both significantly contributed to the establishment of a foundation all superhero movies continue to follow, and the lack of general deviation from this isn't suggestive of talent lacking in subsequent years, but rather proof they were on the right tracks from the beginning, despite having very different views of how a medium once aimed primarily at children should be interpreted. Whether it's Christopher Nolan's reverential take on Batman after the character's decline into camp or Zack Snyder having the aforementioned Dark Knight literally smashing a kitchen sink over Superman's head during a rare moment of slapstick in their otherwise bleak and mostly ideological feature-length conflict subtitled Dawn of Justice, there's a thread of that tried-and-true combined Donner/Lester DNA running all the way through to the present DC Extended Universe!

 

According to Terence Stamp, no-one - except Sarah Douglas, who was neutral throughout that feud - wanted to return after Donner's firing, but Chris Reeve... God rest his soul... stepped up to the plate, agreed to return and finish II, and (mostly) everyone followed his lead, thankfully... although no-one was contractually bound to return, and it would appear that Lester got on well with cast/crew - I've never heard anyone connected with II say a bad word about him - clearly the loyalty and love for Donner still lingered deep... but kudos to Lester for taking all that on and delivering a classic that's endured, despite the myriad of production problems behind the scenes.



Would love to know, though, why Lester and John Williams supposedly didn't get on when the latter watched a rough cut of the former's version of II at a specially-arranged screening in London in 1980, leading to the legendary composer bowing out, though recommending Ken Thorne as his replacement...

 

The Aquaman movie looks like Thor Underwater.

At least some of the scenes in the trailer appear to take place in daylight.

 

Margot Kidder was quoted around the time of Superman II as saying the Salkinds were beyond contempt for the way they treated Donner, which supposedly led to her part being reduced in III. However, nobody I can think of has ever said a negative word against Lester, though I believe a few of the cast members who did return mentioned that his approach to directing was quite different. I wouldn't consider this a complaint as such, but it's claimed he encouraged the use of wider shots so actors could move around more, plus he was open to improvising to a point where the villains were allowed to create their own powers (following the approval of DC supervisors) in order to keep morale high on set, explaining why the battle at the Fortress of Solitude especially descends into a montage of abilities that had to be added into the comics later.

Another fan I once spoke to suggested that John Williams declined to score II after watching an early cut because he felt the pace of editing didn't fit with his slower, more "weighty" music. Indeed, Ken Thorne's work does complement the general sense of escalation that makes II a sequel that hits the ground running, as opposed to its predecessor, where there isn't any considerable action between the destruction of Krypton and Superman's first night. On top of this, it's likely John was having to juggle a packed schedule due to production on The Empire Strikes Back approaching completion, and I'm sure there were other projects in the pipeline for him as well, including the 1979 remake of Dracula. The one thing I can be sure of is that Michael Thau looping a small number of cues from Williams' score over Donner's his cut of II just didn't work, though I'm open to the possibility of a superior - and preferably impartial - editor achieving better results with the same material...

 

As if my earlier suspicions about DC and WB not having faith in Superman as a flagship character of their cinematic universe weren't justified enough, now it seems they're moving ahead with introducing Supergirl to the ongoing franchise in her own standalone adventure over a direct sequel to Man of Steel, which appears more than ever to be stuck in development hell.. I've nothing against Supergirl, but I grew tired of the "Arrowverse" series after just one season, and I just can't imagine that overly positive interpretation of Kara Zor-El working in what I'm now calling Zack Snyder's* Murderverse. Maybe the best move would be to reboot with someone more optimistic like Greg Berlanti or even Richard Donner in charge of plotting out a longer arc without the need to catch up with Marvel in just a few installments? Saying that, was it ever officially explained if the empty pod seen in Man of Steel belonged to a young Kara? I know this was supposedly confirmed in a comic tie-in, but I'm not sure if that was canonical with the actual movies.

*Yes, I'm aware that Snyder is no longer involved with the franchise, though it's clearly building on the foundation he established.

P.S. Another point I don't think has yet been mentioned is that Warner Archive recently issued a long overdue Blu-ray edition of the Supergirl from 1984, which includes two different extended cuts. For all the movie's shortcomings, I'd definitely consider adding this to my Christopher Reeve era set!

 

Girl power! I stated earlier in the thread that the future of DC is female, and this move seems to lend evidence to that theory. The DCEU’s biggest hit is Wonder Woman. We now have Wonder Woman 1984 coming up the pike with Batgirl and Supergirl in development. DC can see the writing on the wall. They know where the big hits are. They aren’t with the boys, apparently. Young women want role models, evidenced by the hype surrounding Wonder Woman. DC got the message loud and clear and green lit Batgirl and Supergirl.

On a side note, the CW recently announced that Ruby Rose has been cast as Batwoman. Pretty cool!

 

Having just recently perused the II shooting script from Donner's tenure, the Niagara rescue scene is in there and virtually identical to the released version in Lester's cut... the only exception being the Donner script doesn't have Lois throw herself into the rapids to try and get Clark to save her and reveal himself as Superman in the process.

For all of the praise and credit that Tom Mankiewicz rightly gets for his Superman writing contributions, it's startling just how much of the Newmans' post-Puzo/pre-Mankiewicz contributions not only remained largely intact but made it into the final released versions... and I personally think they made II a better and more complete film with Lester than Donner's version would have been, although it's tantamount to heresy in comic-book circles to say such a thing these days...

By the way, for all the criticism and ridicule the 'memory-wipe' kiss in Lester's version of II gets from those same comic-book circles, it's worth noting that was actually a canonical power from the comics themselves... score one for Dickie Lester on that one, true believers!

 

I watched it on TV. I wanted to like it. I liked Gal Gadot in it. . . . Not much else to like.

 

I wonder if they plan on simply making a film featuring the TV version or if, like they've done with the Flash, there's plans for a new actress. A film version of the TV show would be ANOTHER mistake. That said, bring on Power Girl!!!

 

Yeah, I saw that news - it's just a shame she'll likely be limited to the Arrowverse instead of appearing in the DCEU.

 

Gene Hackman refused to return, so all new shots of "Lex Luthor" in Superman II were done with a stand-in, usually from the back, and with another actor imitating his voice. Also, the "Daily Planet" set was completely trashed, so any shots of that that remain in Superman II were done by Richard Donner.

I thought there was a huge shift in tone between Superman and Superman II, and I didn't like where the film series was going at all. Superman III and IV just went right off the cliff as far as I'm concerned. There's a fine line between action/adventure and comedy, and too much comedy just waters down the action, as far as I'm concerned. It's easy to say that it was all Richard Lester's fault, but I think the reality was he was just giving the Salkinds what they wanted. Donner's commentary on the Superman DVD release was really illuminating: one of his comments towards the end was that he said he was fired "for going overbudget," but he insists he was never shown any paperwork as to what the budget actually was. The fact that the first film is still admired as much as it is tells you that Donner did a lot of things right that nobody else was able to do in the years that followed.

I went to an Academy tribute to Donner about a year ago, and it was amazing how spry, alert, and articulate Donner was at 88. And I think the scenes from Superman got among the biggest applause of the many clips shown from his lengthy career.

 

There are at least four "new" Daily Planet shots in II under Lester. One towards the beginning where Clark comes to work and finds out from Jimmy and Perry about Lois being in Paris (note that Marc McClure looks a bit older than he does in the other Donner shot stuff), another where Lois gives a pep talk to Clark in her office, one at the beginning of the Metropolis Battle which is a reshoot of a scene Donner shot in Perry's office where Lois, Perry and Jimmy are discussing the Zod situation ( again McClure is a bit older and Margot Kidder is noticably much slimmer with a slightly different hairstyle), and one at the end where Clark gives Lois the infamous kiss. Plus various " new" inserted shots during the battle showing Lois, Perry et al's reaction to the fight.

You are correct most of the rest of the Planet stuff was shot by Donner, but some of it wasn't. It looks like at least parts of the Daily Planet set was rebuilt for the Lester reshoots. Probably Perry's office and a corridor to Lois' office, which was actually new since Lois worked in the bullpen in the first movie.

Donner is a great talent and seems like a good guy. He clearly still loves Superman. He recently wrote a story with Geoff Johns( DC's top writer and formerly Dick's assistant when he made Lethal Weapon 4) that appeared in ACTION COMICS #1000. He and Johns wrote a pretty cool run of ACTION COMICS circa 2006 that was heavily evocative of his Superman films.
I'd love to pick his brain about the character and Lethal Weapon, the Omen etc.

 

Superman: The Movie may be heavy on the diffusion filters, but you don't think a brand new 4K scan from the original camera negatives - and presented in UHD - would be a noticeable upgrade in visual quality from the current 1080p version in circulation, which was scanned at 2K from an IP?

I certainly do... and so long as any new color timing is faithful to Donner's and DP Geoffrery Unsworth's intentions, it's going to look absolutely terrific and be the definitive presentation of this timeless classic.

And as I've stated elsewhere, if that goes like gangbusters, then I hope they move on to Richard Lester's theatrical cut of Superman II and give that the same treatment... that's one film that would benefit greatly from a 4K scan and UHD presentation.

I just hope the original camera negative for II wasn't disassembled by Michael Thau in putting together the so-called 'Donner Cut', because interviews from Thau at the time of that new version's release in 2006 somewhat worryingly seem to indicate that's exactly what he did... which would have been an act of utter vandalism if true.

 

I doubt that Warner would allow him to work directly with the camera negative. He likely worked with an IP made off the camera negative.

 

As flawed as "Man of Steel" IS, I enjoyed the different take on "Superman". We had seen Donner's version before and it was great but I think taking a different approach was demanded. For all of those who criticize the scene where Superman kills Zod, I think it added emotional resonance to the character. Yes, there was a darkness to the film but it was a nice contrast to the sunny Superman. I never thought I would defend Snyder's film but it was and remains a legitimate attempt to try something different and make Superman a more flawed character adding emotional depth.

As to Lester's "Superman II", what worked for me was the fact that it had a broader tone. It's tough to follow a successful film like "Superman" and Lester figured out a way to do so and it works. For "Superman III" there are elements there that are worthwhile as well but it fails to work as well as the first two films. The evil Superman plot without the Richard Pryor character would have worked better for me.

The problem with the Salkind's "Supergirl" was simple--they provided too much creative direction and they weren't the best choice for that. They also needed a stronger writer to come in and work on the material.

Justice League was a disaster as a film. I haven't seen Zach Snyder's intended cut but the shoddy CGI and the material that Joss Whedon added did nothing to help the film.

 

Agreed, but I always felt a big part of the problem was simply Helen Slater. The polar opposite of the charismatic Christopher Reeve, she was incredibly bland. Regardless of how you feel about the show, the kid (Melissa Benoist) is playing Supergirl to 'Reeve-ian' perfection. Tellyawhat, they brought Slater in as Supergirls mom (A nice touch I thought), and she's still bland!

 

I saw Man of Steel once and didn’t like it, but I would like to give it another shot. I watched a few clips on YouTube recently and found myself interested in the film. Some films need to be watched more than once to be appreciated.

 

She was pretty good as the girl in the blue sweat pants on Seinfeld.

 

She was great in "Ruthless People", but that's a role where she was supposed to be wimpy and "bland"!

 

Aquaman - extended trailer

 

DC's second box office hit after Wonder Woman.
Awesome, indeed.

 

Man that looks great! I'm rooting for this to be successful.

 

Yeah, I didn’t have much hope for this, but it actually looks like a fun movie. That action sequence on the rooftops was a blast!