*Justin Bieber breaks both The Beatles and Drake chart records

Regardless of what you think of him as a person, he's talented. Anyone who questions that is either being willfully naive, just isn't paying attention, or has already decided that the Beatles are the best band that has ever lived and no one is ever allowed to better any achievement they made...40 years ago.

Ed

 

There are tons of massively talented people out there. Sadly, nobody is covering any new ground with the exception of guys like Chris Robinson and Steve Wilson and perhaps a few others.
It is all about image and advertising now, the music takes a back seat to "stardom" and is no longer the vehicle to obtain it.

 

That's untrue. That's just what you think. How familiar are you with modern music? (Outside of what's on the radio)

 

I know who Justin Bieber is in so far as I recognise the name. To pretend otherwise would enter the realms of fiction. I once knew a young lassie who thought him 'gorgeous', so I realise he has an effect on the opposite sex.

I think he has a big Beatles' fringe but am happy to be wrong. I would not recognise him on TV. I could not name one of his songs or LPs. I could not tell the difference between him and Justin Timberlake and I confess I do not care.

It may not be admirable not to know the output of these artists but on the other hand I do know the catalogue, output, work and triumphs of Jake Bugg. So, I do acquaint myself with modern musicians and songwriters to an extent.

Quite what any of this proves is debatable and up for ridicule. Do I continue to derive massive pleasure from the output of bands of forty-fifty years ago? You betcha! Do I hear nothing but dross when I listen to today's instantly forgettable pop? You betcha.
That, as they say, is all.

 

I'm having trouble processing this thread. Is it:

a.) extremely sad? Watching aging boomer geezers tearfully bunching their shorts about a current artist who dares to actually eclipse ancient records set moons ago by their rootin' tootin' rockin' heroes? And desperately, even painfully searching for any way possible to somehow invalidate the achievement?

or

b.) exceedingly amusing? Watching aging boomer geezers tearfully bunching their shorts about a current artist who dares to actually eclipse ancient records set moons ago by their rootin' tootin' rockin' heroes? And desperately, even painfully searching for any way possible to somehow invalidate the achievement?

Ah, what the hell. I'll go with c.) - all of the above.

 

It's always been about "image".

 

24 producers and even more songwriters??? Wow with those numbers every single song on the album should be a #1 hit .

I'm so glad Led Zeppelin never cared about having Hit Records!

 

As much as I agree with this, I do think certain exceptions should be made when it comes to someone like Justin Bieber. This isn't a Justin Timberlake or Mariah Carey situation, where the songs are at least admired by people who just like music in general and the artists have a distinct quality that makes them unique. To people outside Bieber's fanbase, the kid is known for literally anything but his merits as an artist. The music itself feels completely secondary to the machine. I think that's what makes someone like Bieber so infuriating--he doesn't "eclipse" anything but the numbers and if anything he signifies an era of popular music that doesn't need the slightest touch of soul or passion in order to thrive.

 

He's a rock star. He just won't tell us who he is to protect his anonymity.

I'm a movie star. I just won't tell you who I am to protect my anonymity.

If you want to play the Rockledge Game you can be a brain surgeon protecting your anonymity if you'd like.

 

But there was formerly an intrinsic sense of aesthetic that tied the music and the image together. Whether this was the result of clever marketing or genuine artistic impulse is practically irrelevant. Current major popular artists have a sort of unspoken mandate to be "celebrities" first and "artists" later, which explains why a small army of writers and producers are featured on any given album. As long as Justin Bieber remains a fixture in the news and in the minds of witless young girls, his music almost doesn't matter at all. It just has to be "decent", not great or even consistent. The kid makes someone like Michael Jackson look like Lou Reed by comparison.

 

There's no middle ground between being hopelessly stuck in the past and celebrating the Biebs as a big talent? That's really ridiculous.

 

Sure. He's talented because he can perform and dance. But he's not a talented songwriter. He's not really a talented musician (compared to any given talented musician). His voice isn't really all that special or distinct. From a purely "music-centric" point of view, someone like Justin Bieber is practically an insult to people who take music seriously, and if you can't see why The Beatles or artists like The Beatles are superior (from a music-centric POV) that says far more about your naivety than it does any Beatles fan. Even Taylor Swift makes Bieber come off as pure hype. Maybe the kid will prove himself somewhere down the road, but it's hard for me to swallow he's riding the wave of success as a result of his "musical talent".

 

Never said "big talent". You knee-jerked. I said "he's talented" as in he has "some talent". You took that to outer space, not me.

Ed

 

All of this is your opinion. You're totally entitled to it. I don't think he's incredible either...and I never said he was. I just said he was "talented". He was doing his thing on YouTube and got discovered doing it...because he could do it. He's not a bad little drummer and his voice is pretty good. Of course, these are my opinions and I'm entitled to those too...LOL!

Ed

 

I'm not really disputing any of this. But if by your own concession he's "not a bad drummer" and his voice is "pretty good", then what makes him so special? Aside from his sales numbers, what in your opinion makes him worthy of sharing a space with artists like The Beatles or Michael Jackson or Prince?

 

I don't even trust The Beatles Chart records. It is manipulated and used as a promotional device.

 

You're separating something that can't be separated. The numbers quoted in the Billboard article make him worthy of sharing a space with the Beatles, MJ, and Prince. They are what they are and they can't be disputed. My opinion doesn't matter. The numbers put him in that league whether the majority wants him there or not.

Ed

 

You said people that people that refuse to recognize his talent are naive or stuck in the past. I am not a "new music sucks" person. Not at all. But some things do suck, just as they always have. And Bieber is one of them.

 

I'll go with d.) who cares!

 

Familiar enough to know that most of what is being called "rock" and "pop" are for the most part just singer/songwriters embellished by rather generic background music.
I don't bother with radio except for one station that plays rock era music ( occasionally) and public radio ( occasionally).
I do have a rather extensive collection of CDs that includes much modern stuff.
Some of which is quite good. SOME. But it simply is not anything astoundingly path cutting.
Of course there is probably a lot of obscure music out there that is quite good. But it isn't making it into the mainstream.
Which is to say it doesn't get the exposure it should.

 

He's talented? Virtually all of his songs are co-written with three or four other people. Some aren't written by him at all. Also, does he play any musical instruments? If he does I've never seen him playing them whilst performing. In my opinion that's not very talented.

 

He has talent. That's all I ever said. He's a drummer and guitarist. Clips of him playing both are on YouTube. I'm cool to be on an island. Think what you will.

Ed

 

No. During rock it was about the music first. The image is something that came along with the music, not the main thing.
The talent, creativity, and musical abilities are what mattered. The image rode on the talent horse, now the talent horse trots along behind the image.

 

He seems to be YouTube's favorite punching bag, which makes me surprised he's still that popular. I can't say that I've knowingly ever heard one of his songs, so I don't have an opinion on his music.

 

I don't care if he breaks any records, it doesn't change my opinion about his, the Beatles, or Drake's music.