KEF LS50 Wireless or LS50 + New Amp?

The Wilsons are better.

But I still really enjoy the LS50s.

 

I just stumbled across this thread, thought there was another one here.
I've had the Kef LS50W since December and pre-ordered them based on the Dar KO article.
They sound amazing and blow away the Audioengine HD6 and Vanatoo Ones. No contest.
Usability and support is a whole other story.
I have it connected to my Samsung Js9000 TV by optical so it doubles for home theater. I have a Roku and Apple TV connected to the JS9000 One connect box and I airplay music to the speakers via Apple TV or via apps like Pandora on the Apple TV. I have subs to Tidal, Apple Music and Pandora. I have been looking at the various options for Roon and Tidal/MQA to these speakers through USB like the Aries Mini and MicroRendu.
There is no autoswitching of sources which is a pain.
The remote is awful. Tiny indistinct non-backlit buttons. I replaced with with a Logitech Harmony 650.
There is no control of the power off timeout.
The app has been pretty much junk from the beginning and even things that are supposedly fixed aren't.
There is a firmware update that is currently Windows only, is not easy to find or use, and has caused static and other issues for some people which Kef has acknowledged. Their support forum is on Facebook for some reason. They don't answer support e-mails from their web site.
Clearly Kef has not invested in developers who can support this product. My guess is they have outsourced the software development and it shows.
I'm seriously thinking about going back to an Amp and passive speakers at this point. Kef should be embarrassed at their poor support for this product.
Like I said they sound amazing but are also frustrating in many ways.

 

The LS50W did sound great when I heard them at the Axpona audio show this year. However, I've never really considered them for main stereo duties mainly because of the issues you've highlighted. The last thing any of use really want to do when we sit down to relax and listen to music... is waste time dealing with technical issues. When software, updates, internet connection, apps, handshakes...and on and on... the random issues and sudden changes can pop-up and ruin a good-time quickly. Understandably it's frustrating. I wish you luck in the future and hope you figure out a solution soon.

 

The KEF LS50w are amazing as active speakers. I never use the app. The sound is outstanding!

 

Just a small expansion on my earlier post. I came to the KEF LS50w from Klipsch Heritage III and IFI Retro 50. While that combo sounded great in many respects, I wanted a simple setup based on good active speakers. When I got the KEF LS50w I thought of them as active speakers, not a multiroom, multi-service competitor to Bluesound and Sonos.

Presently, I have two different player setups, and I'm trying to decide about which setup to keep. Sonore microRendu with Ultracap LPS-1 and an Audiolab M-DAC Plus. I also have an Bluesound Vault 2. I try to be a minimalist so I would rather keep just the Bluesound Vault 2, but havn't decided yet - mostly because I also have a Stax headphone setup and would rather have the Audiolab's balanced XLR into that.

My minimalist "dream" is to have the Bluesound Vault 2 running into the Stax amp with the included passthrough to the LS50w - ie analogue, maybe test the difference with optical between the Vault 2 and LS50w.

However, I regard the LS50w and my Stax amp as static variables for many years to come. In that regard I'm very content, or even pleased, the LS50w isn't a iot, social media wonder. I rather have that part as a real variable. That said, I wouldn't mind if the LS50w became Roon Ready

 

I'm on the same page with you. I expect to be buying a set of active speakers this year. Minimizing the number of boxes (and complexity) is a goal. However, I need to be pragmatic. Using speakers with WiFi and DLNA/uPnP protocol and remote volume control would give me a minimal solution. Nothing but the speakers in that room. No PC, no DAC, no preamp and no power amp. However, I may be better off to settle for a solution that requires another box or two. A small headless PC with WiFi and DLNA/uPnP protocol and a USB DAC would be acceptable. The PC and DAC would fit nicely behind speakers stands and not be visible.

The LS50W speakers seem like a candidate but I would probably settle for USB input rather than WiFi.

My other candidates are pro audio monitors that don't have WiFi and DLNA/uPnP at all.

 

I would buy the wireless KEF LS50, I heard them at my next door neighbours House on stands ,and they sound excellent, I would not consider any antique tube amp.

 

My decisions are based on the fact that I consider my headphone setup (amp + headphones) to be my main setup. I listen to it more often than the speakers.

I have found the Bluesound Vault 2 to be an excellent companion to the LS50w. Bluesound is one of the front runners in the new audio game, with Roon Ready and a full MQA DAC, for a very affordable price. With Vault 2, I do not need a computer. But since I love Roon, I have a computer with a Roon server in a wardrobe, pulling the music from the Vault. I works very well. I this way I can quickly fire on some music with the Bluesound app, without computer. In serious listening, I push the button on the headless Roon Server in the Wardrobe and listen though Roon. The music source is the same - the Bluesound Vault 2.

 

Here is an interesting review of the LS50:

KEF LS50 Loudspeaker Review

The review hits all the bases including whether you need a subwoofer. I am only using them for music in a small room and I agree with him 100% in my application a sub is not necessary. But in the end, this review ranks the LS50's up there with more expensive speakers. I think those of us who did get them made very good choices. I wouldn't trade my LS50's for any $1,500-$3,000 speaker options I have listened to.

 

I compared the KEF LS50 Wireless to the passive LS50 speakers. Even though the bass on the Wireless model goes down to a solid 50Hz or lower depending on room setup, I actually preferred the passive speakers. To my ears, the sound of the LS50 Wireless lacked some of the tonality and timbre that was more clearly evident with the passive models. I really approached this with an open mind when I auditioned the LS50's, because I like the concept of active speakers plus the convenience of wireless operation. However, the passive speakers were more transparent, engaging and I found myself tapping my toes and enjoying the presentation.

I told the dealer, Halsten Entertainment in Golden Valley, MN, that I have a few amps to drive these speakers:

1. McIntosh MC240, recapped and modified new soft/fast recovery diodes (40W)
2. Dynakit Stereo 35, recapped and modified with Dave Gillespie's Enhanced Fixed Bias (EFB) circuit (17W)
3. diyAudio.com group buy Wiener 2.0 PBTL (dual mono) Texas Instruments TPA3118-D2 Class D amp designed by gmarsh, and modified with Altec Peerless 15335A bridging line-level input transformers to convert unbalanced signals to the amplifier's differental inputs, and CoilCraft output inductors for clean high-pass filtered, high current output to the speakers. (13W)

Obviously, I was concerned that the last two amps would not have adequate power to drive the 85dB passive LS50's. When I got them home and set them up in our open floor plan living room (dining room, kitchen and staircase--about 700 sq. ft.), I wired them up first with my DIY Class D dual mono amp, and these speakers sounded better than they did at Halsten Entertainment with the 200W Rotel RA-1592 integrated amp.

After several hours with this amp, I switched to the Dynakit Stereo 35 tube amp. Again, I was getting rich, full sound with bass deep enough that negates any need for a subwoofer. The soundstage is larger than these monitors should project based on their cabinet size. I love these speakers and can see why professional engineers like them for studio monitors, because they are musical yet very revealing of the mix/mastering of the recording. I would take these over many of the powered professional studio monitors I've heard.

My Audio Research LS7 provides 13dB gain, which I am certain helps drive the KEF LS50's with ease. This rather basic tube line stage preamp is clean and offers superior separation and tone.

I believe another good reason why these modest power amps work so well is that they have high damping factors. The Dynakit's ultra linear output transformers are legendary and have been known to drive difficult loads like Quad ESL-57 electrostatic loudspeakers. The Texas Instruments Class D amplifiers also have high damping factors. I have yet to try these speakers with my MC240, but I expect nothing less than what I've heard to date.

Another factor is the choice of speaker cables. I use vintage Western Electric AIW 16ga stranded Tinned Copper bare wires (as reviewed by Jeff Day), and I believe this is also an easy load for my amps. I plan to upgrade to the Duelund DCA16GA 16ga stranded Tinned Copper wire for for speaker cables based on what I heard with a friend's system using these cables. If you haven't tried these or the Duelund DCA20GA 20ga wire for interconnects, you owe it to yourself to do so. Parts Connexion sells the Duelund wire at very reasonable prices. My friends and I have started switching to the Western Electric and Duelund wire after trying Kimber Kable, Analysis Plus, Kubala-Sosna and other high end cables.

Perhaps the DSP wasn't set up correctly with the LS50 Wireless speakers, but Halsten Entertainment is a reputable dealer and they sell a lot of the KEF LS50 Wireless speaker systems. I should also mention that the Sonos wireless music server is not very appealing to me either, and perhaps that source didn't do my audition experience any justice.

 

I suspect that there's a price point wherein bringing an external amp + external DAC + passive LS50's will sound better than the LS50w's. But for ~$2,100 package of amp (200w pc amp), DAC and speakers, the LS50W offers tremendous value IMO.

 

+1 on the Duelund DCA wire. I switched out my old AQ wire for the Duelung DCA16GA and it was an amazing upgrade. I can't believe how much more transparent my sound is now. I liked the switch so much, I'm in the process my making my own headshell/tonearm wires with the DCA26GA and honestly can't wait to hear the final results. Interconnects are next!

 

Just sharing my experience. Cut to the chase? I love the LS50w speakers ... with minor caveats.
Details: Bluetooth worked perfectly with Tidal and sounded surprisingly good. But .... my initial attempts to stream Tidal to the ls50w via my wifi network was extremely frustrating. Yes, the kef app is (currently) horrible. Get a Logitech remote. Mike from Kef tech support was extremely helpful in finding a solution. He and I were working toward a solution and making progress, but once I got my Roon server and Sonore unit in place, I haven't looked back. Flawless playback of my hires files and Tidal. Often I switch to using Audirvana's new network playback capability with the Sonore unit to stream MQA files via Tidal to the ls50w. The sound quality, imo, redefines 'value'. Before purchasing the LS50W speakers, I was intending to purchase Magnepan 1.7 speakers ($2000) with a Peachtree nova 150 integrated amp ($1500) + $500 speaker cables. Luckily I spoke with someone who owned both systems, Kef LS50w as well as peachtree + Maggie...he strongly steered me toward the Kefs in terms of SQ. Also, $1500 less!!

Lastly, by Jan 1, 2018, I'm willing to bet the LS50w will be a "Roon Ready Endpoint" via firmware update...with new
MQA options (Audirvana, etc!) as well. Buying LS50w's + Sonore + Audirvana(Tidal, MQA) = $2700....a stunning no-brainer imo.

 

I got the price wrong: LS50w's + Sonore + Audirvana(Tidal, MQA) = $2900

 

Only a short while until Roon integration with LS50w according to DAR

"At CEDIA 2017, taking place in San Diego this weekend, the KEF LS50 Wireless and Roon will wed. Within the next few weeks Roon will begin rolling out a software update that will enable the streaming to the LS50 Wireless. No update to the KEF speakers will be required. (All technical questions should be directed toward your nearest Roon representative)."

Roon comes to the KEF LS50 Wireless | DAR__KO

 

I would think since the speakers have their own DAC that MQA does not pass through to the speakers?

 

Have a look at Andrew Jones' latest actives for Elac which I think must be out now. By his comments at an exhibition earlier this year, they were about 95% of what Elac's £5000 passives do (also AJ designed). I'll see if I can find a link to the interview. Might also help if I had the model number. Cost was circa £700 I think.

 

And here's the link to the interview :-

Andrew Jones talks European, active ELAC UB5 loudspeaker | DAR__KO

 

If the source is vinyl I would go with the passives and a separate amp.

I had a dealer compare the active version vs passives w/Rogue Audio gear (both Cronus and Sphinx V2) and a Clearaudio Concept Wood. The actives sounded fine with vinyl playback, but the passives were more transparent and seemed to have more "bite".

I currently have the passives paired with a Red Wine Audio Signature 57 (upgraded to 115wpc w/phono stage, headphone amp and tube input stage). The tube stage and high current of this amp really breathes life into these speakers compared with the Rotel RA-12 I was using before. I notice better dynamics, instruments that sound more tonally rich, along with a detailed and tight low end. The tube stage adds a touch of sweetness that really make them sing too.

 

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding is...using Audirvana as the source, Audirvana unfolds the MQA file and spits out a PCM stream with MQA goodness that is sent to the LS50W. I'm impatiently waiting for Roon to provide something similar. About to give up and just enjoy Audirvana.

 

I agree. Passing a quality analog signal through a ADC-to-DSP-to-DAC signal path seems like a compromise. However, I can understand the reasons why some want the active versions.

I recently purchased a Texas Instruments TPA3255EVM Class D amplifier evaluation module at 50% off through Texas Instruments. I purchased a Mean Well LRS-350-48 regulated switching power supply to power up the amplifier module to 150 watts. The two purchases together cost $110 including tax. The TPA3255 Class D amplifier represents the latest generation Class D audio amplifier technology from Texas Instruments with enough power and damping factor to effortlessly drive the KEF LS50's wth low noise and distortion. Both the power supply and amp are about 90% efficient, so everything stays cool.

The other night, I listened to Eiji Oue and the Minnesota Orchestra performing Stravinsky's "Rite of Spring" (Reference Recordings). I estimate the volume was at around 78dB, and my wife came downstairs to the living rooom to ask me to turn the volume down, because she could feel the timpani strikes coming through to the bedroom on the second floor. I do not have a subwoofer in my system, so the percussive energy from these little monitors was quite impressive. Moreover, the sound is tonally rich and warm.

 

I'm old to the thread but I loved the LS50's but struggled with matching an amp. I've now the LS50W and the transparency is stunning.

Great post on the Rite of Spring. I know what I'll be experimenting with today.

 

The LS50 Wireless speakers have been getting a lot of very positive press, so for many, they are a great deal, especially when one has a limited budget for the required high quality amplification. KEF employs Class D amps in the Wireless models, so that's no surprise as the Uni-Q drivers seem to match up well with high damping factor Class D amplification. I would like to know what Class D ICs are used inside the LS50 Wireless speakers.

 

Regarding placement: the room is small and I would like them on the ground. The isoacoustic stand is 8" off the ground, with tilt up.
Is this too low?

I've read 18" - 24" for seated listening.