Kendrick Lamar wins 2018 Pulitzer Prize in music

You make some great points, but maybe we should dispense giving out awards for artistic merit or excellence since they really can't be compared. But if we don't, what criteria should be used?
I think what a lot of people don't get ( I plead guilty as charged) is that why does Kendrick Lamar get a Pulitzer Prize for music? No other popular artist has EVER won--not Hendrix, Miles Davis, Dylan. Is he that good?

 

I just wanted to see if he has anything other than his overt biases to base those claims on. But, you make a good point, it is usually impossible to "win" an argument or convince someone to change their mind in these situations.

 

Maybe you're right. I'm singling him out because I'm over-generalizing and grouping him together with others hip-hop who do glamorize the drug culture, and I guess I'm being unfair.
I'm going to delete my original comment because I'm not in the mood for this.

Edit----I can see that it was already done for me.

 

I’m trying to put my finger on the differences between Neil Young and Kendrick Lamar that might lead you to treat the former’s transgressive lyrics gently and respectfully, as cogent and “poetic, and the latter’s as disjointed and offensive. What could possible explain such a blatant double standard?

Wait, don’t tell me, it’s right on the tip of my tongue....

 

Neil Young was only using fish and women in a clumsily "poetic" way. But don't be so harsh. It's not like he's Led Zeppelin or something....

 

I've never heard a note of KL's music, not my thing, but I've been seeing this discussion pop up on various websites. This thread's pretty much like all the rest. Pro KL fans defend, anti KL feels he's undeserving. IMO it's not a Kendrick Lamar thing, it's a judging thing. Obviously different criteria's being used than in the past. If the same criteria was being used back in the day, Marvin Gaye's What's Going On would've won a Pulitzer, no?

Again, I'm not the least familiar with KL's music, am I wrong to compare it to one of the most socially relevant recordings of all time?

 

I think the problem at least with the recent anti-KL posts is that they are using sweeping generalizations about rap music that are about 20 years old without actually being familiar with the lyrics and meaning in the KL songs. So, it's hard to actually have a meaningful, respectful conversation about whether it was truly deserved or not.

 

Oh goodness...that is hilarious...thank you so much for this. It's like comedy gold. Tenuously attempting to apply depth that's just not there.
Here's a prime example:

"I can feel your energy from two planets away"

"Kendrick can feel negative energy whether it be two people away, or in this case two planets away. A possible reference to Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus? Mars is two planets away from Venus."

 

Do you not understand how that site works?

Good straw man.

Also, that guess as to what he could be meaning is more accurate than all the things you said about that song even though it is pretty silly.

 

I don't know. Is there really a thing going on between pro-Lamar fans vs. anti-Lamar people?

In SHF it seems it's mostly been about should pop music be eligible for a Pulitzer in Music, or perhaps I'm merely viewing it through my own personal optic.

 

Well...if you followed the thread, I initially did a comparative assessment with his...error..."music" and Stevie's "Innervisions", and I wasn't the one that brought up Neil Young. Nor did I ever say that I found Kendrick Lamar's music to be offensive, because it's too pedestrian and uninspired to even illicit such a reaction. And yet, you want to make a baseless allegation, and pronouncement of my character, when you know absolutely nothing about me, all because you are intellectually incapable of making a cogent argument.
Shame on you...

 

You really aren't helping to prove him wrong. Your argument is empty. You keep repeating adjectives about how his music is too low brow for intellectuals like yourself without acknowledging anyone else's valid specific points and arguments. You keep sounding like you have no idea what the songs are about, or what the lyrics are, but when someone points that out, you ignore it, find a new straw man and throw some more condescension their way.

 

You are probably correct about that.

 

Earlier, I posted that I didn't understand KL's latest album, "Damn.", so, I am going to defer to those who do. Maybe one day i'll "get it". Maybe the reason I can't see it is because I do not relate to a lot of what he talks about. Maybe the mostly smooth music puts me off. Maybe his constant use of the n-word is putting me off.It can't be culture because not all Black people use that word. I don't. As I said before, I relate more to Eminem, probably because of the word I grew up and live in.

But, I also think KL deserves the Pulitzer for his past work that I do "get".

 

As someone who did like and buy DAMN., I will say that I agree that I would rather it won for a past album as well but also chalk that up to my personal tastes.

 

That is what makes us love art - the sense of relationship. If that is not happening, it's hard to come to a true appreciation. You can understand things at a theoretical level - the rhythm, the rhyme, the tonal progressions, the harmony, the repetition; but if it's not speaking to you on an intimate level, it's a superficial appreciation only. That is my position, and I understand that - he is not talking to me.

 

I disagree that you have to directly relate to art in order to truly appreciate it but respect that you feel that way. It is just not my personal experience.

 

I think it's worth thinking about "relating" in more flexible ways. Art can make the strange familiar and the familiar strange. It's part of what it's for.

L.

 

Totally agree. Cheers.

 

When most people on this forum say that they can't relate to certain types of music, and dismiss it, no one ever publicly disagrees or challenges it.

 

I'm not sure what you mean, do you think that's what I did? I was just saying it wasn't the case for me and that I respect that their feelings are different.

Edit:Anyway I was talking about relating directly as in a familiar way. Personally I enjoy lots of art that is about things that are unfamiliar to me that I can't directly relate to, but can still appreciate on a true level. Along the lines of what lschwart was saying.

 

Relating in more flexible ways? Mmm. The only thing that comes to mind is a total suspension of reliance on personal experiences and a leap of faith, pure imagination if you will, to a world that is absolute fantasy. Now that is certainly possible, but it takes a skilled artist to take us there. I am not sure that Lamar has that ability - he speaks to those already on his wavelength.

 

I tried to go a little in depth & give my interpretation of what I thought he was trying to do on the album in a few pages back, at least from a lyrical standpoint. Maybe the music will grow on you, but if the use of the n word bothers you that much, there just might be no getting around it.

(Regaurding that word, I think it very much is a culture thing, just not necessarily a race one, but for forum rules/policy, I really don't want to get into that. Considering were Kendrick comes from, & the rappers that inspired him, it's to be expected)

 

I agree. No different than with films I love(like Goodfellas) where I can't relate & am totally unfamiliar with the world but still enjoy it immensely.

 

I'm having trouble understanding your perspective.

Are you saying that one simply cannot truly appreciate art about and/or from the perspective of a person from a different, race, culture, social status as oneself? Perhaps we have different definitions of what it means to truly appreciate art because I would find it very depressing and boring if I felt that I could only appreciate art made by people "just like" me. Surely I'm misunderstanding you.