King Crimson 2009 re-issues CD / DVD stereo/5.1 all inclusive thread (Part 4)

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by MilesSmiles, Jun 14, 2013.

  1. Craig Williams

    Craig Williams Forum Resident

    How amazing would a KC vinyl boxset be using all the SW stereo remixes?
     
  2. tonewheeltom

    tonewheeltom Forum Resident

    Location:
    Vineland, NJ
    Huh? Although I wrote that a while ago, my point was many people are so offended by the idea of remixing in stereo that it’s a “damned if you do, damned if you don’t” for artist and label with these releases.

    I love ALL the content, and I’m not morally opposed to stereo remixes.

    And lo and behold, in 2017, for the first time since the original Red release in 2009, we're getting two releases which do not include his stereo remix: Misplaced Childhood and Farewell to Kings.
     
  3. Billy Infinity

    Billy Infinity ThinkPad

    Location:
    Philadelphia
    I'd love it, but I can’t imagine how expensive it would be.
     
  4. brimuchmuze

    brimuchmuze Forum Resident

    I thought it was lack of interest by SW in the material that led to his involvement ending.
     
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  5. gd0

    gd0 Looney Tunes and Merrie Melodies

    Location:
    Golden Gate
    I can't imagine anyone being any less interested in Trilogy/BSS than ELP/Tarkus. Again, no citations or links, but various accounts suggest E, L & P have been less than cooperative over the years, in one regard or the other, when it comes to re-releasing the catalog. I got the impression that it became too personally uncomfortable for SW to continue. There was a statement (maybe by SW, I forget) that his interest ended after the first two, but I sense that was sort of a gentleman's agreement just to get the hell out.

    And it's too bad. Jakko's remixes of Trilogy and BSS miss the mark, imo.
     
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  6. brimuchmuze

    brimuchmuze Forum Resident

    Steven Wilson - Past presence

    Well, I think it's clear enough. He doesn't love the albums.
     
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  7. gd0

    gd0 Looney Tunes and Merrie Melodies

    Location:
    Golden Gate
    :shrug:
     
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  8. grbl

    grbl Just Lurking

    Location:
    new york
  9. Billy Infinity

    Billy Infinity ThinkPad

    Location:
    Philadelphia
    Unfortunately Jakko's THRAK stereo remix leaves much to be desired as well. Absolutely nothing personal against the man (he's a tremendous vocalist and guitarist for the rebooted KC), but the remix seems to be a case of throwing everything but the kitchen sink from those multi-tracks onto a stereo image and hoping it sounds remotely cohesive.

    The original 1995 mix exuded restraint - quite a feat actually, considering how much sound was generated from the groundbreaking lineup.
     
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  10. aphexj

    aphexj Sound mind & body

    Location:
    Toronto
    Call me crazy but I like hearing what all six players are playing and Jakko's mix accomplishes that, for me
     
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  11. gd0

    gd0 Looney Tunes and Merrie Melodies

    Location:
    Golden Gate
    Tastes vary of course, but I like Jakko's remix very much. If I know my Crimson Kings – and I think I do – that remix can prolly be attributed to Fripp as much as anyone.

    I do agree that the original mix is spectacular. Mixing choices AND production values are off the charts. Immaculate!

    So there would be no point to a (stereo) remix unless they did a complete re-imagining, imo.
     
  12. Billy Infinity

    Billy Infinity ThinkPad

    Location:
    Philadelphia
    Lots of good points here. I think I owe it to myself to revisit the remix and give it another fair listen.
     
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  13. seasonsinthesky

    seasonsinthesky orphan coal, sleep, etc.

    Location:
    Canada
    I agree with your original thoughts in the previous post. Jakko's mix splits up the double trio too much – listen to a song like One Time, where everyone is so far apart that the only anchor is bass and vocal. On the original mix, the song is full to the brim with atmosphere that swells and falls with Ade as it should. I find Bottrill's original mix knows when it should separate the halves (VROOOM) and when the halves should morph into a single creature (ballads and big rock moments), where Jakko's mix just always keeps the halves apart to the detriment of many of the songs.
     
  14. Runicen

    Runicen Forum Resident

    I'd have to agree with observations that the Jakko mix of Thrak is almost surgical in its clarity. Now, I'd also argue that it can be an interesting alternative from an artistic point of view. Fortunately, for anyone who owns the box, it's not like we are left with only the remix and it's a nice nod to the fans to offer both the "exploded view" and the original mix.

    Similar to a few Steven Wilson mixes (mostly Tull off the top of my head), sometimes the clarity improves the album and sometimes there's that ineffable "certain something" about that original mix that just sells the material that little bit more. Thrak is, to me, one of the latter, but it's wild to get what almost feels like an "under the hood" appreciation for the machine that was the double trio via the remix.
     
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  15. Plan9

    Plan9 Mastering Engineer

    Location:
    Toulouse, France
    Just wanted to say that I never could get 100% into the album with the original mix (I guess it sounded too "early 90s" for me), but found a new appreciation with the remix, stereo and surround.
     
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  16. aphexj

    aphexj Sound mind & body

    Location:
    Toronto
    Yes, Fripp's comment about reimagining stereo for the 21st century is relevant to this remix. With no need to make concessions for airplay through now-antiquated radio or TV broadcast you can get 100% clarity and separation
     
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  17. gd0

    gd0 Looney Tunes and Merrie Melodies

    Location:
    Golden Gate
    ^ There's never been much danger of radio airplay with King Crimson. :laugh:
     
  18. Say It Right

    Say It Right Forum Resident

    Location:
    Niagara Falls
    As hard as it is to believe, a couple of the Sirius/XM stations have been playing some KC tracks and not obvious ones. Recently heard "Man With an Open Heart," live "People" and live "Heroes" during the morning commute.
     
    Runicen likes this.
  19. Aggie87

    Aggie87 Gig 'Em!

    I heard Porcupine Tree ("Waiting Phase I") for the first time on Sirius recently, on Deep Tracks. So I'm guessing that's where you heard KC? If other channels, which ones? I'd love to hear more prog on Sirius.

    I wish they had a channel dedicated to prog actually. I think there's enough material out there to justify a channel like that, and have emailed them in the past asking for it. No luck so far.
     
  20. Say It Right

    Say It Right Forum Resident

    Location:
    Niagara Falls
    It was on The Loft. Deep Tracks would likely do tracks like "In the Court," "Epitaph" and "Scizoid Man." Larry the Duck on First Wave has played "Heartbeat."
     
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  21. aphexj

    aphexj Sound mind & body

    Location:
    Toronto
    I first became aware of KC via terrestrial radio, when they played the title track from In the Court on a cloudy afternoon for Q107 Psychedelic Sunday
     
  22. albertop

    albertop Forum Resident

    Same for me, now this album has become one of my favourites in KC discography!
    I particularly like the new stereo remix: I think it's quite an effective presentation for the work of the double trio.

    Having said that, I can also understand most of the criticism above. Some songs seem to work quite well in the original mix (Walking on air, which has missing parts in the remix; Dinosaur and Sex Sleep Eat Drink Dream for the vocals). The remix gave a new life to instrumental and congested tracks, such as Coda: Marine 475 and Thrak (the remix is outstanding!)... One time was also improved, in my opinion. I don't mind the alternate vocals used in Inner Garden, but the take used is definitely inferior.
     
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  23. Plan9

    Plan9 Mastering Engineer

    Location:
    Toulouse, France
    I agree for Walking On Air, and Dinosaur... but I still like the remix, just not better, for these two.
     
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  24. street legal

    street legal Forum Resident

    Location:
    west milford, nj
    I can never understand this either.
    If I didn't care for the music before, a remix certainly isn't going to change that. What confuses me even more is when I read a comment from someone who decides to check out a new remix of an album that they are not even familiar with . . . just because it is remixed (usually by Steven Wilson).
    Utterly bizarre, if you ask me. :)
     
  25. Nycademon

    Nycademon Forum Resident

    And you know that how, exactly?

    While I certainly didn’t “not care” for my original LP “In the Wake of Poseidon”, I didn’t greatly enjoy the album, and I rarely played it, even though King Crimson is easily in my top 3 favorite bands. The Steven Wilson remix made the album one of my favorites . . . and I sold the LP. I had a very similar experience with Yes’ Tales from Topographic Oceans.

    Why don’t you test your theory, and see what happens?
     

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