King Crimson - Red (200 gram vinyl/released 2013)

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by DPM, Aug 6, 2013.

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  1. DPM

    DPM Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Nevada, USA
    I just wanted to give a "heads up" to the King Crimson fans here that the new vinyl pressing of Red is out. I haven't listened to the record yet, but the vinyl looks to be of high quality.

    A download code is also included in the package.

    (Original stereo mix.)

  2. chrischerm

    chrischerm Forum Resident

    Still love that gnarled china cymbal on One More Red Nightmare. So evil sounding. I read that Bruford found it in a garbage container outside the recording studio with a big gash in it. No idea if it's true or not, but it's a great story. How's this bad lad sound?
  3. mogambotek

    mogambotek Forum Resident

    Bombay, India
    Would love to hear thoughts on this reissue. I found a VG copy for $8 recently so I picked it up as I'd never heard the album. It really is an amazing album, but my copy is a bit noisy. I'd like to know how much of an improvement this is over a US original press.
  4. DPM

    DPM Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Nevada, USA
    Well, I gave this a first spin today. Overall, I'm pleased with it. Those of you who are John Wetton fans are probably going to like this record. Both his bass and his voice benefit from this new vinyl mastering. Overall, the sound is more full-bodied and warm than with the prior versions I've heard--including the original Atlantic LP and most CD releases. I've always found Red to be a bit too brash and clattery--like a toddler run amok among the kitchenware. Historically, warmth has not been a sonic strong point.

    This LP addresses those short-comings--in my view, of course.

    Also, during my listening session there were instances where certain high frequency percussion sounds stood apart from the rest of the mix, and the individual character of each of those sounds was more apparent than with previous versions of Red I've owned. The treble sounded less jagged, and this allowed the true nature of percussive sounds to come through. A perfect example is the quiet section during Starless when the tension slowly ratchets up before the instrumental onslaught. The bells, cymbals, bowed metal sheets, wood blocks, etc. just hung in the air like the proverbial pin waiting to drop.

    And when that pin did drop the improved bass response gave this album some much needed heaviness in sound to go with the heavy playing. The various cymbal crashes were still there, but now they weren't cluttering up the mix.

    As for the dynamics, though this LP is not brick-walled there MAY have been some compression/limiting used. The quiet parts were indeed quiet, but I didn't hear the huge dynamic swings of some of the other Crimson albums. Some of this may be a result of the improved bass response filling in some of that space during the loudest parts. The tamed treble may be adding to this. I didn't hear the sonic version of one's face pressing up against the glass, but this LP does sound appreciably different from prior versions. The band now sounds more of a piece--so to speak. Red now has the sound of a true power trio with each player now equal to the other vis a vis the sound spectrum.

    Now, all I've stated above is based on one listening session. Further exposure may alter my opinion on one or two of the points above. Still, overall I'm pleased with this LP. The vinyl was flat and fairly quiet. The sound is crank-able. This is my stereo "go-to" Red from now on.
  5. jonnyhambone

    jonnyhambone Forum Resident

    Minneapolis, MN
    nice, clear review. Thanks
  6. audiotom

    audiotom Ground Control to Major Tom

    New Orleans La USA
    Thanks for the review. Mine just arrived

    Lark's Tongue is niw available via pre order on vinyl
  7. italianprog

    italianprog Forum Resident

    IN, USA
    Agree with everything DPM says. The guitars on "Red" are still a bit screechy, but no mastering is really going to change that.

    My copy is slightly cupped. Not warped but not flat either. Kind of a bummer for a $30 record but it doesn't seem to affect play.
  8. DPM

    DPM Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Nevada, USA
    I was a bit disappointed with the noise that did pop up from time to time--particularly during the intro of Providence. Luckily, Starless was very quiet.

    It bums me out when I play a used copy of something like Joe Walsh/The Confessor, and it turns out to be dead silent. Yet my $28.00 new Crimson pressing has a few noise issues here and there. Still, this record beats the CD in the 40th Anniversary set. Once I get geared up with Amarra Vinyl I'm sure my resulting CD (and high resolution files) will be superior.
  9. Craig Williams

    Craig Williams Forum Resident

    Think this is 200g isn't it?
  10. DPM

    DPM Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Nevada, USA
    Yes. Absolutely it is a 200 gram pressing. I typed in 180 above in the thread header. My mistake.
  11. Manelus

    Manelus Well-Known Member

    Barcelona, Spain
    I have two unanswered questions by the information available so far:

    1.- Is the vinyl mastering digital or all the way analogue?
    2.- If digital is it the Steven Wilsons remaster?
  12. DPM

    DPM Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Nevada, USA
    The only info I have is from the packaging. It states the following:

    1) The original stereo mix of the 1974 classic
    2) Newly cut from masters approved by Robert Fripp
    3) Includes 320kbps MP3 download of an original 1974 vinyl transfer
    4) 200 gram vinyl

    Also, Steven Wilson is NOT a mastering engineer. Simon Heyworth (with input from Fripp) has been doing most of the stereo digital mastering for these new King Crimson releases. I don't know who cut the vinyl. All I can tell you is I think the LP sounds better than the remastered CD in the 40th anniversary 2 disk set. If I were to venture a guess I believe the LP was probably mastered from a high resolution copy of the master tape. That seems to be standard operating procedure these days.

    Maybe someone else can chime in with more info.
    Plan9 likes this.
  13. Jeeves#9

    Jeeves#9 Well-Known Member

    Hopefully my copy will come on Tuesday, fingers crossed. I pre-ordered this from Amazon back in May and the release date just kept getting pushed back.
  14. simon-wagstaff

    simon-wagstaff Forum Resident

    There is no way I would purchase a vinyl album with a digital generation. Totally against the point. That being said I stick with hi rez digital for what is available. I love The King Crimson DVD-As. I just picked up a turntable from my folks though so yard sales should be a little more interesting.
    drasil likes this.
  15. Manelus

    Manelus Well-Known Member

    Barcelona, Spain
    ooops! I meant remix, not remaster.
    Thanks for the info :)
  16. Bill Cormier

    Bill Cormier Forum Resident

    Malta, New York
    All I want to know is if they finally put some BASS in the title cut ??
  17. D Schnozzman

    D Schnozzman Forum Resident

    Sydney, Australia
    Just got my copy - will not get to play it till later. Just to answer one question from above, the lacquers were cut by John Dent at Loud Mastering. He has inscribed JONZ LOUD on each side.
    I assume the source is from a hi-res digital transfer from the master tape. This was the case with the previous three LP reissues, wasn't it?
  18. Bjorn Kjetil Johansen

    Bjorn Kjetil Johansen Vortex Surfer

    Oslo, Norway
    Got my copy from Amazon UK today, unfortunately with a seam split sleeve. It happens a lot when I order from them. Still, the price of 11.23 £ is a very good deal for this record. Haven't had the time to listen to it yet.
  19. sennj

    sennj Forum Resident

    Muskegon, Michigan
    I agree with the very good review above on the sonics of the new LP issue. I do, however, wish the pressing was just a bit better as I have precisely the same issues that a couple of others have mentioned. Nothing too egregious, but this is not as good in terms of vinyl quality as the other LPs in the series have been. Hopefully they'll have a bit better effort for Larks' Tongues...
  20. EL34

    EL34 Forum Resident

    As an aside, the MP3 is atrocious. Obviously you buy this for the vinyl, but I'm still surprised at how poor the transfer was.

    No regrets, just sayin...
  21. rtalwani

    rtalwani Forum Resident

    My copy arrived in the US from amazon uk today, also with a split seam and a bent corner. The price was right though, and it's too much trouble to exchange. We'll see if Burning Shed packages Larks' Tongue any better than amazon uk. I hope so, since BS charges a bit more. The vinyl was very quiet, except for very minor noise at the beginning of Providence (unfortunately).

    All I have to compare it with is my original Canadian cut-out, which was not treated gently when purchased in the mid-seventies. I'm no expert, but to me the new version is a bit more polite than I expected, although because my family was home, I thought it best to keep the volume down. All in all, I'm happy to have this quiet copy on heavy vinyl.

    For the record, the matrices are: KCLP A-2/KCLP B-2, with "JONZ LOUD" on both sides. The labels say "Made in England."
  22. Ben Adams

    Ben Adams Forum Resident

    Phoenix, AZ, USA
    I haven't downloaded the mp3s yet. What was the problem with them? I know they're from a needledrop of the original 1974 UK release . . . is there surface noise? Do they seem too bright with not enough bass?
  23. DPM

    DPM Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Nevada, USA
    That's an affirmative on both counts.
  24. David.m

    David.m Active Member

    Sydney, Australia
    If you have tt playback close to the standard of your digital player you really are doing yourself an injustice not giving consideration to getting the vinyls. IMO all the KC vinyls issued so far better the stereo DVD-As, my Red arrived from Amazon UK yesterday quite warped so I have to flatten it (in the vinyl flat) before I give it a spin. I know this is a discussion for another threat but I've found many digital sourced LPs that easily better the CD (Clapton Unplugged immediately comes to mind & that of course is an original digital recording).
  25. kwadguy

    kwadguy Forum Resident

    Cambridge, MA
    WTF is the point of #3? Presumably, this new LP is cut from the original stereo mixdown master. Why not use that to create the digital download? Why then go and use the old 1974 LP for creating the MP3s?
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