King Crimson "Sailors' Tales" Mega Box (November 2017)

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by whiskeyvengeance, Sep 5, 2017.

  1. penguinzzz

    penguinzzz Forum Resident

    Location:
    Charlton, London
    Just to clarify the above, this is what we know about the 'unidentified shows':

    The first 'unidentified show' is 100% the same show (albeit incomplete) as the audience recording / bootleg listed as Santa Monica 19 March 72. (the location can't be totally verified but no particular reason to doubt it)

    Support on the Santa Monica bill was The Blues Project & Fairport Convention. (Is it likely there would have been 2 shows in one day with a 3 act bill? Anyone remember?)

    Fripp introduces the show "thank you for being patient for two years" (on the audience recording) , and at the end says "maybe we'll see you in two years time" so there's no reason to infer that the second comment might imply it's the last night of the tour (as in the booklet).

    In the audience recording there are technical problems delaying the start of the show.

    In the second 'unidentified show' Boz refers to technical trouble in the 'first half'. (Could this mean it's a second show from the same date? It's worth noting that many shows of this era featured technical problems usually caused by mellotrons).

    I realise some people are less interested in this sort of thing than others. Any thoughts?
     
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  2. jblock

    jblock Forum Resident

    Location:
    Connecticut
    I agree that it's unlikely that there were two shows at Santa Monica based on the three group bill.
    Regarding the second show, it's one of those few shows where the drum solo is out of Sailor's Tale, so most likely no Groon that night. The "first half bit" is a mystery. Is this the second of two shows? Why wouldn't Boz have said "earlier show" then? Is Boz referring to a different band that played before Crimson?
     
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  3. Archtop

    Archtop Forum Resident

    Location:
    Greater Boston
    Who played bass on the Blows came up earlier in the thread - Blow #3 is almost certainly Rick Kemp on bass. On page 23 of the booklet he discusses "playing on G minor for some considerable time" which must be Blow #3. Now, obviously we can't know if Blows 1, 2 and 3 are actually numbered chronologically (one might reasonably conclude that the Larks-esque material on Blow #3 wouldn't be attempted until some evidence had emerged that the band could actually gel on something less challenging), and I understand your point about the playing on Blow #1 being less aggressive than the playing on #2 and #3, but the way the booklet portrays things, the gig was Kemp's until he ultimately turned it down. It was only after this that Boz was recruited for bass. So I'm inclined to think that it's Kemp on all three, but I have no hard evidence to support this.

    Anyway, if one is considering buying this box based on the Blows, I'm not sure that they are compelling enough to tip the scales. I mean, I find them quite interesting, but I'm a "dig into the weeds" type. I still haven't managed to get into the nuts and bolts of this set yet, so I can't comment on the more standard fare here.
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2017
  4. penguinzzz

    penguinzzz Forum Resident

    Location:
    Charlton, London
    The fact that the (complete) first show has a version of Groon that leads into a one-off jam on Sailors Tale themes (with no Formentera / ST), while as you say the second features FL /ST and no Groon, would be a point in favour of them being two shows from the same date...
     
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  5. jblock

    jblock Forum Resident

    Location:
    Connecticut
    It could definitely be Kemp on all three Blows. The first one sounds more like a microphone or two set up in the room, whereas blows 2 and 3 sound like some of the instruments are going direct, or at least recording better with microphones. I also agree that there's no way Boz was playing at this level when these were supposed to have been recorded, which would have to have been January. It's said that Boz picked up the bass 11 weeks before the first gig, which would be the beginning of February.
     
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  6. Perhaps it's another take of Groon performed by the Islands or Lizard line up in the studio?
     
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  7. asdf35

    asdf35 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Austin TX
    My quote was from before we knew the scope of the box set. The boxset title referred to Islands, but a "Groon" reel implied Poseidon. Very happy to have the whole era consolidated.

    I wish we had a studio Groon from the.........Larks' line up!!
     
  8. Archtop

    Archtop Forum Resident

    Location:
    Greater Boston
    Or I suppose there could have been a third bass player we just don't know about. Wetton was asked to join at some point around this time but declined (or was that the Gordon Haskell incarnation?) and I don't hear his style in any of those.
     
  9. jblock

    jblock Forum Resident

    Location:
    Connecticut
    I agree, none of the blows sound like Wetton and it seems like he would not have had to audition for the bass seat. Wetton was asked to join in Spring 1971, when Boz was already installed as the bass player. Probably March based on Mel Collins' recollection that both he and Ian Wallace told Fripp he really had to give Boz a chance on bass.
     
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  10. NumberEight

    NumberEight Came too late and stayed too long

    As already discussed, the Poseidon, Lizard and Islands “Alternate Albums” on the Sailors’ Tales Blu-rays use recent Crimson performances to fill in a few gaps where little or no contemporary material is available.

    Since no alternate version of Moonchild appears to exist, its sudden (and delightful) inclusion in the current Crimson repertoire convinces me that a 50th anniversary Court set is definitely on its way...
     
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  11. scompton

    scompton Forum Resident

    Location:
    Arlington, VA
    Listening to some of these live shows, I'd love to see the current incarnation play Groon.
     
  12. Say It Right

    Say It Right Forum Resident

    Location:
    Niagara Falls
    Yeah, and drop "Pictures of a City."
     
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  13. RockNRod

    RockNRod Forum Resident

    just Curious whiCh live show you thinK has the best sound quality, not neCCessarily performanCe from this set?
     
  14. Rne

    Rne Tangled up in blue

    Location:
    Malaver
    Summit Studios, the only multi-track show. Sounds great.
     
    Beatnik_Daddyo'73 likes this.
  15. TFEC

    TFEC Opinion Holder

    No! Always a treat, always different.
     
  16. tonewheeltom

    tonewheeltom Forum Resident

    Location:
    Vineland, NJ
    Which are the exclusive Steven Wilson mixes in this set? “Devil’s Triangle Part III” stereo and 5.1 remixes, Lizard “flat transfer” stereo mix (actually SW’s first pass at stereo remix)...anything else?
     
  17. Say It Right

    Say It Right Forum Resident

    Location:
    Niagara Falls
    It's filling the Mel Collins quota and to include something from ITWOP. The song's been featured practically if not actually every time since this lineup emerged, while some other vital material has been relegated to the dust bin.
     
  18. Plan9

    Plan9 Mastering Engineer

    Location:
    Toulouse, France
    No, that's it.
     
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  19. TFEC

    TFEC Opinion Holder

    Interesting assertion re: quota - I suppose you know best. Presumably, Fripp is following this thread, and the setlist will be modified accordingly.
     
  20. Say It Right

    Say It Right Forum Resident

    Location:
    Niagara Falls
    If you hadn't felt the need to counter the remark and keep the "debate" going , it would've been already forgotten. Nevertheless, it's not hard to figure out. It's already known that the main crowd pleasers are from ITCOTCK (despite OP's assertion that "Schizoid Man" should've gotten the axe) and Wetton/Bruford era. They started including regular selections from the '71-'72, while adding a few from the Pat era. No, he didn't PM to ask if it should've been dropped with "Sailors Tale" kept.
     
  21. jblock

    jblock Forum Resident

    Location:
    Connecticut
    I've listened to each Blow about 5 times now. The first one is tough to get through. Ian Wallace is trying so hard to get something going but it's just noodling. I don't think I've ever heard Mel Collins so uninspired. Blows 2 and 3 are marginally better. Blows 2 has Collins on flute and Blows 3 has Fripp kicking on the overdrive. Or maybe it's because Blows 2 and 3 are 27 and 25 minutes long vs. Blows 1 at 45 minutes? No wonder they had such trouble finding a bass player. Did they not even attempt one Crimson song? Don't buy the box just for these.
     
  22. jblock

    jblock Forum Resident

    Location:
    Connecticut
    I'd be happy to hear Pictures of a City at every show. Red, on the other hand.... The only tune I don't prefer with this incarnation, mainly due to the plodding drum arrangement.
     
  23. Marvin

    Marvin Forum Resident

    I love that they're playing PoaC nowadays though I'm not too sure I like that they've replaced the middle section with a sax solo. That build-up from a bass riff was an integral part of the song, not filler.
     
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  24. jblock

    jblock Forum Resident

    Location:
    Connecticut
    That's pretty much the arrangement for the song since it was first played live in 1971.
     
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  25. TFEC

    TFEC Opinion Holder

    Yeah, not a sax solo - group improvisation within the framework of the original. Hair raising, inspiring, and different every time. That's why it's essential - every time.
     
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