Kirmuss Audio Ultrasonic RCM?

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by Steve0, Apr 28, 2018.

  1. ayrehead

    ayrehead Active Member

    Location:
    Germantown, Tn
    I was going to say go to Auto Zone but I see you're in the U.K. Go to an auto parts store and get The Absorber. It's the best thing I've used to dry a record.
     
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  2. Soundhead

    Soundhead Forum Resident

    Last edited: Sep 28, 2018
  3. Mormerod

    Mormerod Well-Known Member

    Location:
    USA
    If I remember correctly mine came with 2 cloths. A large cloth and a smaller one packed in the lid of the surfactant.

    Speaking of the surfactant I got some Polypropylene Glycol (99.9% Food grade) to see if it’s the same. I’ve not tried it yet but it certainly doesn’t have the same scent as what Kirmuss supplies.

    As an owner for over 6 months I can only add to the positive reviews others have posted. I had a SpinClean, which I still use to do a distilled water rinse, and also tried the DIY US approach, but the noise from the eBay US baths is unbearable! One big positive other than how great it cleans is the RC-1 is way quieter than the DIY approach.
     
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  4. Smokinone

    Smokinone Active Member

    Location:
    Southern Nevada
    I bought these. They seem to work well and I can keep clean ones in the rotation.

    https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0050R66X8/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o08_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
     
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  5. Soundhead

    Soundhead Forum Resident

  6. Shawn

    Shawn Forum Resident

    I have the smaller version of this brand and use them to clean my glasses, cell phone screen and iPad and they do a nice job. However, I find that they don’t absorb distilled water/cleaner on those items very well. Are the bigger ones better at absorbing water?
     
  7. Smokinone

    Smokinone Active Member

    Location:
    Southern Nevada
    You are correct as they don't absorb quite as fast as the one that came with the unit, but they do absorb after a little longer contact. The larger size allows more drying as the smaller one gets water logged pretty fast. They've been working well for me. There might be more absorbent ones out there, but I've only tried these.
     
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  8. rollo5

    rollo5 Forum Reprobate

    Location:
    Altadena, CA
    I bought some from Edmunds Optics. They are the orange cloths with an anti-static fiber woven into the cloth.
     
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  9. Smokinone

    Smokinone Active Member

    Location:
    Southern Nevada
    I think these are the same cloth.

    Anti-Static Tiger Cloth | kinetronics
     
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  10. doak

    doak Forum Resident

    Location:
    New Orleans
  11. classicrocker

    classicrocker Life is good!

    Location:
    Worcester, MA, USA
    Not sure this would be good for drying vinyl as reading the reviews there are complaints of it shedding fibers. There are a number of microfiber cloths you can buy that are lint free and should not shed. The ones I use, don't remember the brand, don't shed and do a great job taking off the bulk fluid after using a Spin Clean before finish drying with my Record Doctor V
     
  12. Soundhead

    Soundhead Forum Resident

    How much back and forth movement are people getting whilst the records are turning?
     
  13. doak

    doak Forum Resident

    Location:
    New Orleans
    I did see that on one of the 56 reviews.
    I’ve one on order. Will report my experience here.
     
  14. classicrocker

    classicrocker Life is good!

    Location:
    Worcester, MA, USA
    Actually there were 2 reports of shedding in the first 5 reviews I read but maybe they were exaggerating?

    "I used the cloth today and it shed microfibers profusely, which made it totally useless for cleaning my camera lens. "

    "Works well, but there is a considerable amount of fibers that fall off the cloth as I wipe. So, I wipe off dust and then wipe off orange fibers before being ready to scan."


    Let us know how you make out
     
  15. rollo5

    rollo5 Forum Reprobate

    Location:
    Altadena, CA
    No, the ones from Edmunds I have are lint-free microfiber. They do not “shed” and have worked quite well so far. I use them in conjunction with Charles’ cloths.
     
  16. rollo5

    rollo5 Forum Reprobate

    Location:
    Altadena, CA
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  17. Mormerod

    Mormerod Well-Known Member

    Location:
    USA
    If you're referring to while cleaning in the RC-1, none that I notice. I find it a reasonably smooth continuous turn. The only issue I've occasionally had is not putting the record in straight which meant it didn't turn, but that was user error rather than the machine.
     
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  18. Soundhead

    Soundhead Forum Resident

    Yes, that's what I'm referring too. I noticed it after cleaning several records so I don't know whether the water temperature was affecting something, I also forgot to check if the 2 records that were in the machine at the time were warped it could be that. I cleaned 2 last night and they turned without movement.

    I have this Sunday to myself so I'm going to clean a whole bunch of records and see how it behaves.
     
  19. Mormerod

    Mormerod Well-Known Member

    Location:
    USA
    When I load the records I try to put it closer to the left end of the slot as that seems to make sure I have it sitting correctly on the rubber wheel.
     
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  20. Bill Hart

    Bill Hart Forum Resident

    Location:
    Austin
    I've seen similar behavior with the KL-- it isn't warping the record, but the heated part of the record in the bath v the unheated area around the label seems to cause the records to flex, particularly if you are running the machine for a while (the water temp will increase with cavitation). I think The Absolute Sound (something I rarely read anymore) observed this when they reviewed the KL some time ago (Jacob Heilbrunn?).*
    I have not found this to result in any permanent warp or damage to the LPs.
    *PS: I checked, it was Andre Jennings, who has a science and engineering background- he is solid and does audio for fun.
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2018
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  21. 5-String

    5-String Forum Resident

    Location:
    Sunshine State
    I have also noticed that my records are coming out of my KL more "flexible" that they are originally. A friend of mine has a DIY ultrasonic RCM and it produces the same results, meaning the record bents more easily after they have been ultrasonically cleaned. In both my KL and the DIY system the record seems to go back to normal after 30 seconds or so.

    I wonder how this heating, warping, flexing-whatever we call it- affects the sound quality produced by the groove walls if they get deformed and reformed again.

    Please, someone with more technical expertise than me, put my mind at ease.:hide: I am seriously thinking of going back to my 16.5 and do not risk any more records with the ultrasonic.
     
  22. Bill Hart

    Bill Hart Forum Resident

    Location:
    Austin
    I have not found that to be a permanent condition; interesting that your experience seems to be otherwise? (Although in re-reading it seems that your records return to normal afterwards, at least in terms of 'flexing').
    I have run some records through two back to back 5 minute cycles with no intervening drying cycle; they will flex on occasion if the machine has been running a while, but I have not noticed that the process results in a record that flexes more after it is out of the machine.
    As to the temporary flexing, I haven't found any lasting problem from it. Andre Jennings suggested that the flexing actually helps in the cleaning process. I get the theory; I guess the main concern is damage and I haven't experienced any, using both the AD and KL for a fairly long time now....
     
  23. 5-String

    5-String Forum Resident

    Location:
    Sunshine State
    Thanks for your response, yes, they go back to normal after half a minute or so. And like you, I have not experienced any apparent damage, although there are a few interesting things that I noticed with records that have been cleaned ultrasonically.
    • It seems to me that records that had some groove damage before, after cleaning them in the ultrasonic, the groove damage sounds worse, like it is now more obvious and apparent. This might be a result of the record being extremely clean and the damaged grooves stand out like a strawberry in a bowl of peas, but could it be that there is something else going on?
    • It seems to me that records that have been ultrasonically cleaned sound more "dry" and less "warm" than if they are cleaned on a vacuum RCM. I have cleaned many records first on the VPI, played them for a few days to really digest how they sound, and then cleaned them again with the KL and it seems that after the ultrasonic they seem to lose some of their warmth.
    (I know that these are very subjective, maybe I have been imagining things, but has anyone else noticed anything similar?)

    After the honeymoon period with my KL ended, now I am starting to question the whole ultrasonic method.
    I am kind of concerned with what really happens to the groves when being under these conditions, specifically, the heat and being bombarded with the ultrasonic waves.
    Do they deform temporarily while inside the ultrasonic tank? Does the deforming, if that is what really takes place, affect the sound or does the groove reshape without any consequences?

    Maybe I worry too much and I am overthinking this whole thing. I should probably stop and go back to just listening to my records.
     
  24. Bill Hart

    Bill Hart Forum Resident

    Location:
    Austin
    Harry Weisfeld, from VPI, made a comment about the sound from an ultrasonic record- as I recall (and I think this is in a VPI blog), he thought the record sounded 'burnished' when cleaned ultrasonically, and that it was restored to full sonic lustre by additional conventional cleaning.
    I don't know. No one to my knowledge has done any convincing scientific testing of damage other than to put a record into ultrasonic for prolonged periods of time and look for residue, gouging or sonic anomalies. I suppose one could construct a more scientific test, but it is somewhat of a leap of faith, based on anecdotal experience, that no damage is occurring.
    My experience has been positive, but as I've often mentioned, I do more than rely on ultrasonic, and sometimes clean and reclean a record with different fluids and lab water/point nozzle vacuum, using ultrasonic as part of the process. In that, I haven't noticed any real sonic "dryness," perhaps because of my methods.
    I do think ultrasonic cleaning adds an additional dimension to the cleaning, and yes, my experience, even with conventional vacuum cleaning is that sometimes, the record is less quiet, presumably because more information is being extracted from it (and not because fluid residue is left on the record, which is a common hazard of hapless cleaning).
    I think a lot of people opt for ultrasonic because of convenience. I use it as one tool in my cleaning arsenal, though when I got my first ultrasonic unit, an AD, I was blown away by the ease of use.
    As I got into the cleaning process in more depth, I gave up convenience for more elaborate multi-method cleaning steps with what I consider to be better results. My big mantra is to get the fluid and contaminants off the record once the cleaning part is done- and in that, I've relied on high grade water rinses and point nozzle vacuum. Not the easiest, fastest or cheapest, but FWIW.
     
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  25. Tommyboy

    Tommyboy Senior Member

    Location:
    New York
    I’ve owned the KLAUDIO for nearly 4 years and have cleaned hundreds of records using the machine and have never come away thinking the record sounded worse after a cleaning or lost some sort of sonic signature.

    Additionally, after a record is thoroughly cleaned, no matter what method, imperfections if there, will be more noticeable and not buried in surface noise. You can’t blame that on the device.
     
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