Normally I'm in total agreement. But as a pure business move, this tour it makes more sense to stick to the war horses. The hard core KISS fan (if he/she truly believes this is the last go 'round) will go regardless so ticket sales will be even more reliant on trying to grab as many casual fans as possible. It just doesn't make sense to start to challenge your audience with deep cuts on their final tour. And in their defense they do have the Kruises where they've expanded outwards from the stagnant tour set lists. I'd agree with them playing I Stole Your Love because it's among Paul's best songs, and I've never like Love Gun as anything more than a novelty. But if Paul isn't going to use vocal enhancements I really have no desire to hear him croak through I Stole Your Love anyway.
But what about it being fun for them? We know Gene likes doing the rare stuff...so does Tommy and Eric. The Stones throw in 1-2 rare tracks per show...why can't they?
The problem with Paul's set list argument is KISS really don't have a lot of big hits. Realistically, how many songs do they have that everyone knows? Four? Five? So a lot of the so called 'casuals' don't know a lot of the stuff in the set as it is. The average 'general audience' rock fan doesn't know Flaming Youth any better than they know She or Take Me.
I agree but that's the same for every tour they've done for the past ten or fifteen years. So if they didn't care about keeping themselves interested and motivated by changing up the set list in 2008 or 2012 it can't be that much of a bother now. You might be trying the change the system when you start your career but when you're 40 years in and there's a retirement party scheduled in six weeks, it's not your fight anymore. It's completely possible, Judas Priest have mixed up their set list this year more than on any tour in their entire career. I'm 100% in favor of KISS doing this I just think that if it was acceptable for the last 20 years it's time for me to give up this particular battle with this particular band. Seems to me that if Gene was really interested in this avenue he'd take his billions, hire Tommy and Eric as his band and go out and play his songs for whoever is willing to pay for it. Honestly, the hardest part of touring with KISS for Gene, Tommy and Eric has got to be listening to Paul every night and seeing the reaction on the faces of the crowd. At this point they must dread every second of every song that Paul sings.
I have a feeling this won't be a problem for the upcoming tour as long as Paul doesn't stray too far from the mic.
Yeah, it seems to me that Paul's answer from that interview you posted above suggests that he's going to use tapes from here on out. While he's obviously lying about the recent television appearance being live, he seems to be suggesting that what we heard there is the new normal. That's what I took from his rambling anyway. I do give the interviewer credit for asking about it even though he went easy on Paul and didn't hold him to, uh, telling the truth.
There are random songs he sounds good doing still like Hide Your Heart. He should toss CMon and Love Me in gherebas that wouldn’t be hard to do. The set lists from the first Reunion tour mixed it up well. If the copy those that had the songs I mentioned for the most part I would be happy. Also everyone that wants to see Kiss has seen them at this point so tossing 2 or three of these songs would hurt. I don’t think they have any new fans at this point.
Only reason Love Gun has been in the setlist forever is because its Paul's favorite so it stays in the set even if it wasn't a hit song it is one of their iconic songs. I do agree they could easily get away with not doing songs like Lick it Up, Black Diamond, Love Gun etc but we all know they aren't going to challenge themselves and they are always going to play it safe. Paul can say all he wants about people wanting to come and see them play the hits but I call BS on that and think they just can't be bothered to delve deeper into the catalogue.
I guess the no brainer would be for the last show to be in NY with appearances by all who have contributed over the years. I hope Peter goes along for the fans and don't try to hold up the appearance with an outlandish demand$ Gene has extended the olive branches and had Ace,Peter,& even Vinnie at Vault experiences.
Paul Stanley, Jake E. Lee and Wolf Hoffmann - Rock Talk with Mitch Lafon - Omny.fm Paul interview with Mitch Lafon. Over at the faq they're all tripping over themselves saying how great it is...probably because Mitch is posting in the thread. I personally I didn't think it was so fantastic but it's worth a listen.
If they want to sell more than 5,000 tickets anywhere in the US there has to be an ACE angle. Unrelated to Tommy opinions. Will Gene/Paul sign a "farewell contract" like that Motley Crue press conference? Oatsdad: I counted 8-9 Bowie songs at some shows like Vancouver 1990 that were virtually retired - Oddity/TVC15/Starman/Pink Rose/Young Americans/R&R Suicide/Golden Years/John Only Dancing/Alabama
Surprised to see the FAQ have anything positive to say in regards to anything related to modern day KISS they are all such miserable bitter people on there I quit posting.
Thanks! I knew most of the "retirees" had to be from early in the tour, as Bowie pared down that setlist pretty severely as the tour progressed. The only ones I think general fans would care about are "Space Oddity" and "Young Americans". Bigger fans would miss "TVC", "Starman", "Suicide", "Golden" and "Dancing". Hardly anyone would miss "Pink" and "Alabama"! IIRC, those early shows were around 135 minutes, whereas by the end, they clocked in close to 90 minutes. Has anyone ever done a tour that lost 33% of its opening night running time by the end?
Which is why (even though many will refuse to accept this) KISS were a way better band in the 80s and early 90s. They were tighter and hit their vocal peaks. Their 80s songs reflected that but it didn’t have the nostalgia that KISS fans had with their 70s songs. Too bad KISS fans and the music world at large have little value for that era. That’s where KISS detractors need to be directed.
I prefer 80s KISS over 70s KISS. Yes 70s KISS will always be the historically more significant era but they were as you said much better musically in the 80s.
I disagree. In my opinion the '70s had better songs and better playing. Playing you say? Yes playing. We all know Ace and Peter's skills deteriorated over the years, but at their best they were better than any guitarist or drummer that followed. And the songs speak for themselves. I don't really see how there's even a question about that. But I do realize this is subjective and opinions vary.
You say they were a better band in the 80's/early 90's. But do you think their records were better in that era? Your statement seems a bit vague on that. I think a person could believe the band was better in the 80's but that the albums were better in the 70's, or vice versa. Me, I don't think anything can touch the albums from the 70's. And when I got into KISS it was around Animalize/Asylum and I had zero nostalgia for the makeup era. I was born in 1971 but my parents weren't music listeners so I never even knew who KISS were until I got into them. My friend gave me a blank cassette with Dressed to Kill on one side and Love Gun on the other and I thought they were just bad ass albums, so short and to the point. And the original band was just a different animal to what Eric Carr, Vinnie, Bruce etc brought to the table. Because of the way they were formed out of nothing each of the four original guys was just responsible for being himself, playing exactly what his skillset and instinct told him to (at least until Bob Ezrin came on board). So no matter what one guy did the other three moulded their contributions to that. That already ended before they ever got out of the 1970's and they would never be able to revisit that youth and purity. It didn't help that Gene and Paul felt personally and professionally burned by Ace and Peter. So going forward they were never going to allow anyone free reign to be a complete original in KISS; I don't blame Gene or Paul for that but it hampered how good they could really be going forward. There was always good songs because Paul and Gene are such talented song writers. But the great albums are in the 1970's. And (Music From) The Elder!
Ace basically saying "show me the money" and he'll be there, pretty sure that means he'll want more than just a straight 7 figure salary, he'll want Paul/Gene kind of $. I disagree with Ace regarding the enthusiasm that the general public will have for this tour, I don't see them doing multiple nights anywhere like they did in 96-97, in fact I think they'll have trouble getting anywhere near capacity in most cities unless they make this a great package tour with reasonably priced tickets. Former KISS guitarist Ace Frehley has confirmed to Yahoo Entertainment that he hasn't been invited to take part in the band's just-announced "One Last Kiss: End Of The Road World Tour". But that doesn't mean he isn't open to the idea, saying that "for the right price" he would "absolutely" do it. "The first year of that [first] reunion tour [in 1996], we grossed $215 million, and that was 20 years ago. So what would it be today, probably double that? Half a billion? I'm there," he laughed. Frehley stressed, however, that he's "not chomping at the bit" to do another reunion tour "because I'm having so much fun with my own band and recording records at home, and producing them, and writing them, and singing them… My career has been going up and up and up." According to Frehley, one good reason to do it, aside from the massive payday, would be the fans. "I know the fans want it to happen because of the comments on the Internet," he said. "Ninety percent of them overwhelmingly are saying, 'Bring Ace back.' If Paul [Stanley] and Gene[Simmons] decide to put a deaf ear to the fans, I think it's going to hurt their careers. But, you know, those guys always have done what they've felt like doing, even when it was not necessarily the best move." Frehley — whose new solo album, "Spaceman", will be released on October 19 via eOne — first left KISS in 1982. He rejoined in 1996 and parted ways with the band once again in 2002 after the conclusion of their first "farewell tour." In a recent interview with Rolling Stone, Stanley didn't rule out the possibility of guest appearances by former members on KISS's final tour, but didn't promise anything, either. "I really can't say," Stanley said. "This will be a celebration of KISS and not any individual lineup or any individual members. I wouldn't rule anything out, but it's not the crux of what we're doing… and I'm not being coy either. I don't want to mislead anybody. Really, that's not something that's been given a lot of thought at this point. The majority of our time has gone into what is the stage going to be, what is the show going to be, and we're actually in the midst of toying with setlists now."
He knows. He can hardly sell out a random local beer-bar. The staggering drawing power of ACE cannot be underestimated. ...and I love the dude. 78 solo album is seminal in my world.
Ace Frehley is one of the most delusional people ever. The only people that care about Ace as the Spaceman are hardcore KISS fans and they're already inclined to attend this tour to say 'goodbye' to their band. Does he think if he was asked to be involved it would be as THE Spaceman, as in he plays the entire set every single night of the tour? Nobody on earth could believe that would happen; Tommy Thayer is going to be up there for a vast majority of the set under any circumstances because he's reliable. And I love the comment about Paul and Gene hurting their careers if they don't recruit him. They should definitely cut Ace a cheque for $100 million dollars so that the tour can gross an extra $1 million dollars. KISS is a million miles from 1996 and Ace's dollar figures are wildly out of whack. The gravity on Jendell is different than earth, clearly the math is too!
In the early 2000's promoters had it in KISS contracts that 3 originals had to be present. Peter or Ace had to be there. I think Ace easily brings in very low 8 figures of value over a 3 year tour. Ace ads $1m of ticket value in the UK during a 1 week period alone. I think all the "haven't been asked yet" is all just silly non-answer hype for an announcement from the Kiss Kruise.
Really, the main thing I'm hoping at this point is that the NYC-area and South Florida shows aren't at those outdoor venues like Jones Beach, PNC Bank Arts Center and Coral Sky. I hate those places for a few different reasons. I usually skip shows at those venues.
Maybe outside of the US they could do multi-night stands they always do really well when they come here to Australia. But for the US its not dire like it was during Creatures and Revenge in terms of attendance but it isn't pretty either and they certainly haven't been at the level to do the big name arenas over the last few years either.
