KISS: The Songs 1974-2012

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by GodShifter, Feb 7, 2017.

  1. Tree of Life

    Tree of Life Hysteria

    Location:
    Captiva Island, FL
    SAINT AND SINNER

    Another decent tune with a decent riff and Gene sings great on this one....Two for Two!
     
  2. Zoot Marimba

    Zoot Marimba And I’m The Critic Of The Group

    Location:
    Savannah, Georgia
    Saint and Sinner:
    A really cool tune, I like the little fills that Eric, groovy bass, the solo by Vinnie is awesome, this song is a really nice slowdown and on a scale of one to ten, I give this a big ol spaghetti bowl with Parmesan, butter, and meat on top.
     
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  3. MagneticNorthpaw

    MagneticNorthpaw Senior Member

    Location:
    Chicago, IL USA
    Saint and Sinner
    This is the Gene song that I consider the bona fide home run, right from the stuttering start and the tom/snare pounding flourish. Eric's snare sounds so good and powerful on this song and the cross-sticking on the hi-hat, offset by a slight return to the stuttering off-time in the pre-solo, is just tickles my ears and has from first listen. His and Gene's bass fills take up the space commandingly. Niko/Jackson pulled back the reins on the reverb here and it adds a "dryness" that suits the song well, imo.

    I feel like there is no other KISS song quite like "Saint and Sinner." The laidback, almost bluesy solo and utter lack of background/gang vocals bar a few "whoos" make it stand out in their catalog. Really, with the exception of the slightly dissonant guitar dives going into the solo, there is little in the way of frills or gimmicks. It's a powerfully efficient song.

    And one of Gene's best post-Seventies vocals for that matter, too. Another 10 to my mind.
     
  4. Saint and Sinner- this is one of my all time favorite songs from the band. Eric Carr is really locked into the groove. His sublime hi hat work and that big drum sound stand out to me. As mentioned earlier, the guitar solo is understated but it works really well. The entire track is a slow burn, but if you give yourself up to the groove you can't help but fall in and let the wave carry you. A++ in the Haggis Wampovich book of awesome.
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2017
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  5. Paulo Alm

    Paulo Alm Forum Resident

    Location:
    In The Light
    Creatures of the Night, as an album, simply blew my mind back in '82! I might've played it every single day until Lick It Up came along! Most probably, KISS' best album after their initial run in the '70s. There are so many things I love about it... I hope I'm able to make that clear through the daily song by song analysis.
     
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  6. Paulo Alm

    Paulo Alm Forum Resident

    Location:
    In The Light
    Creatures of the Night - This song is epic! Paul rules on this, and so does Eric! Those drums are so well recorded, but Eric is playing like his life depended on it too!

    Love those lyrics, and the imagery they bring along with that amazing cover shot, which has got to be one of their best! What an eye-catcher!

    The backing vocals, the guitars, the bass, the solo.... Everything works perfectly and sounds fresh and strong.

    I can only add that Creatures of the Night is one of their best tracks ever, even if not exactly in line with their seventies incarnation. A brilliant track! 10/10
     
  7. Paulo Alm

    Paulo Alm Forum Resident

    Location:
    In The Light
    Saint and Sinner - This is one of the best tracks on the album! I felt it then and still feel that Creatures of the Night is a 'Gene album'. He is even responsible for the majority of tracks, which is pretty unusual. I've said it before, Gene when really on it is the best in KISS, and his delivery throughout this album is simply absurd, too good! Really focused and flawless. Love it!

    The drumming on Saint and Sinner is really outstanding, Eric manages to get into an amazing groove, full of flourishes! Definitely a highlight here! I love that drum sound too, so powerful! It's a real shame Eric would never again shine like this on subsequent albums.

    I think this song is very well arranged too, the guitars have room to breathe, and the bass locks in with the drums in a very effective way. Very tight and well thought out.

    Vinnie Vincent's solo is another highlight! What a beautiful tone and so tasty! The soloing on the outro is also killer, could never tire of that.... Vinnie did have A LOT of potential, it must be said.

    Another 10/10.
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2017
  8. Tippy

    Tippy Well-Known Member

    Okay, so I will break my rule of not commenting on VV any further only because a specific question was asked and I feel it would be rude not to answer. :)

    I literally have no recollection of this record, but I am positive I listened to it at least once in '93, as my girlfriend at the time who owned both VV albums was big into Slaughter and a few years before had gotten into KISS when she had gone to see Slaughter open for them.
     
  9. ejluther

    ejluther Forum Resident

    Location:
    Newtown, CT
    If VV had been able to be more pragmatic he would have been a great longtime member of KISS; going OVER THE TOP is what they do and VV is great at that, but he seemed to miss the memo about not going over the top of Paul and Gene...

    S&S is a great tune and one I always loved - I always figured they switched it and"Killer" for the rerelease because "Killer" got some chart action in the U.K. as a single - I love this 12" with the "dark" and "bright" sides:
    Kiss - Killer

    Here's the 7" version with pull-out tongue:
    Kiss - Killer

    That's got to be the only official band release with only one member on the cover, right? And what an odd drawing with Gene and his Elder hair...
     
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  10. Cheevyjames

    Cheevyjames Forum Resident

    Location:
    Graham, NC
    Saint and Sinner

    Man, what a great song. Two in a row. I love that they brought the pace down slightly from the opener. It's got this great kind of funky groove to the verses and then there's the fantastic swagger of the guitar line in the chorus. Great solo from Vinnie. He does a great job in making it sound like a slide when it isn't (to my ears). Gene's plunky bass tone really works well for the song as does that crunchy guitar riff at the very beginning. I love that change at 3:47 as well... the guitars, Gene and Eric and all step up. Gene's voice sounds good here, he shows a lot of range throughout the melody line on the verses.
     
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  11. npgchris

    npgchris Forum Resident


    Thanks for the background. As mundane as it may seem, I find this stuff genuinely interesting.

    My knowledge of The Sensational Alex Harvey Band could fit on a post-it note, unfortunately. My first exposure to them (on the OLD GREY WHISTLE TEST DVD compilation) didn't connect with me at all, and I need to familiarize myself with more of his/their work.
     
    William Smart likes this.
  12. npgchris

    npgchris Forum Resident

    I'm glad I'm not the only one!
     
  13. Sandinista

    Sandinista Forum Resident

    Saint and Sinner

    This one is an early favorite of mine from this album - grabbed me a lot more than the opener (the opener has been growing on me a bit but I dig S&S right away).

    There's a lot of cool drag and catch and release type tension in the verse which is both appealing and interesting to me.

    And it's nice to hear Gene nailing an impassioned sounding vocal. There was a time when he was vying for the best rock voice in the band and this is a reminder that he coulda been a contender :D after slop like Charisma and so on.

    Very nice building up, with the walloping drums and almost lazy sounding chords rolling out one by one. And Gene is vocally all business right out of the gate.

    The screams at the end of just icing on the cake.

    The Demon is back in the building, bitchez!!!
     
  14. Curveboy

    Curveboy Forum Resident

    Location:
    New York City
    Well for Creatures it was 3 co-writes and lead on 6, so I'd say he had a significant influence on that disc.
     
  15. SizzleVonSizzleton

    SizzleVonSizzleton The Last Yeti

    Saint and Sinner is the perfect example of how close Gene and Paul are in terms of quality of songs. The Paul songs without question are the more ear catching in terms of being album openers and singles. Gene's songs sneak up on you more, seem on the surface to be more generic (and probably are), but are damn near as good. I think a large part of it is being aware of the characters and that as male listener it's generally easier to relate to the dark ugly story of the demon than the pretty boy talking about how he chose his particular cheerleader for the night.

    So yeah, Saint and Sinner. This song is sneaking up on me today. I've never had a problem with it but today it's just hitting me right. I might even prefer this to the opening cut. Vinnie does a lot of really cool coloring with his lead work (shall I mention 80's Alex Lifeson again). This is the Vinnie I love. For me with Mr. Vincent it's A Tale of Two Vinnie's; "it was the best of times (KISS) it was the worst of times (VV Invasion). Sorry @Curveboy !:oops::cool:

    There's a really cool drag on the low note of the intro, almost a VH Unchained thing. Almost like it's detuned or something. And maybe it is, I'm tone deaf and can barely tune a guitar. There's a stutter at 22 seconds like the one in the title song. Those remind me of Jimmy Page though I can't think of a specific Zep tune where that's present.

    On the surface of it this song should be too long at 4.50 but it plays shorter than that and I have no problem with it.
     
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  16. Curveboy

    Curveboy Forum Resident

    Location:
    New York City
    Creatures certainly has the better production, but I agree Lick It Up has the better songs.

    Your assessment of Painkiller...damn, I can't agree. All Guns Blazing, Touch of Evil, Hell Patrol, One Shot At Glory...all killer. And that title track has got to be in the top 15 greatest metal tunes of all time.

    Now Motley...yeah, I want to like that Corobi disc but it's just lacking great songs.
     
  17. Curveboy

    Curveboy Forum Resident

    Location:
    New York City
    SAINT AND SINNER

    Really like nothing the band has done before or after. I didn't quite get it back then...why was Gene giving Ace the kiss off? Well, not it kinda makes sense. Even if Gene didn't mean it that way...it certainly comes off like it.

    And hot damn...Eric Carr just blows the roof off. Honestly...everyone tried to copy this drum sound in the 80's and no one quite got it...not even KISS ever again. Vinnie's lead is so fantastic too...so melodic and then really picks up for the outro.
     
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  18. Deuce66

    Deuce66 Senior Member

    Location:
    Canada
    I know that Creatures' drum sound directly influenced Power Station, they said so themselves.

     
  19. bartels76

    bartels76 Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    CT
    SAINT AND SINNER

    I am so happy to see the practically unanimous love for S & S! This is one my favorite Kiss songs. I give it an A+. Carr's groove filled drumming really drives this track. The interplay between the band with all the changes throughout the song really is unique and I wish they continued more into this territory. It's a smart metal song for sure.
     
  20. William Smart

    William Smart 21st Century Schizoid Man

    Location:
    North Haven, CT
    Great to hear from you brother! It's OK to stick around and say "I don't like this cause. " Or "This sucks, Paul sounds like sh ite on this" I probably will be here and there. It just goes with the era. Be well brother. Zal rools too!
     
  21. ejluther

    ejluther Forum Resident

    Location:
    Newtown, CT
    Why? "Bye, Bye, Babe" kind of sounds like "Bye, Bye, Ace" the way he sings it?
     
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  22. GodShifter

    GodShifter Forum Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Dallas, TX, USA
    Sorry, but what exactly is being referenced here? I'm a bit confused.
     
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  23. William Smart

    William Smart 21st Century Schizoid Man

    Location:
    North Haven, CT
    In many ways Vinnie reminds me of Belew who's probably in my top 5 if really thought about it. Not his playing per say, but his approach to the guitar. He's actually penned some of my all time favorite KISS songs. I love the opening song of COTN. It grabs you and your off. No choice but to go for this ride. One of my favorite songs, not just of this era either, but through their whole catalogue. Great F ing song! This really KISS, and you know it, no doubts, no questions! KISS IS BACK!! uh yeah i like it....
     
  24. Terrapin Station

    Terrapin Station Master Guns

    Location:
    NYC Man/Joy-Z City
    "Saint and Sinner"

    Friggin LOVE this song. It's grooving, it's kind of dark, and it's gorgeous in my opinion. Such a great blend of a relaxed but driving 12/8 beat, cool suspensions over pedal tones, and very bluesy. What makes it really gorgeous though is the melodicism--again with lots of suspensions--in the vocal part and the guitar solo, plus the timbre of Gene's voice--he sings it in a perfect range for his voice.
     
  25. Terrapin Station

    Terrapin Station Master Guns

    Location:
    NYC Man/Joy-Z City
    I agree with the comment, too, about how the tempo and mood change from "Creatures" to "Saint & Sinner" work really well.
     

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