KISS: The Songs 1974-2012

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by GodShifter, Feb 7, 2017.

  1. Paulo Alm

    Paulo Alm Forum Resident

    Location:
    In The Light
    I think Ace's version is very interesting, solid. But he's revisiting the song 34 years after it was recorded, and I don't see him soloing like that then at all. He would've come up with something entirely different back in '82, in my opinion.
     
  2. npgchris

    npgchris Forum Resident

    Interesting. So I most likely was actually "debating" with Vinnie himself! I'm neither a Vinnie lover nor a Vinnie hater; I think the guy has a lot of talent but I also feel was a bad fit for KISS, in terms of his individual personality. I don't know close to 1/2 as much about the guy as you do, but what I do know strongly suggests the presence of some sort of mental illness or other psychological issues. And if that's the case, I feel truly bad for him, as no one ever asks to have to deal with something like that. I know he's engendered a lot of bitterness and dislike from a lot of people over the past couple of decades. If it turns out that much of what he did wasn't even necessarily his fault (in other words, an untreated or misdiagnosed mental illness), then it's truly a heartbreaking story. Your comment about him "going nuts when challenged" really struck a chord with me, as I was just engaging in friendly back-and-forth with this guy Sphinx and certainly never intended to anger or hurt anyone. Very sad situation. :cry:
     
  3. Combination

    Combination Forum Resident

    Location:
    New Orleans

    Sometimes I get confused over this kind of thing - are we hearing drums with a bunch of reverb added to them, or are we hearing the "room sound" being mic'd in a specific way?

    I can see the "Jukebox Hero" thing, and yes, that song sounds about as dry as the desert!
     
  4. GodShifter

    GodShifter Forum Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Dallas, TX, USA
    Maybe a room sound for the drums (but see below*). The guitars still sound like they have a lot of reverb on them.

    *Remember this album came out after Phil Collin's Face Value where Hugh Padgham basically defined the drum sound for most rock albums for the next 3 or 4 years with gated reverb deal so it's probably more than just a room sound.
     
  5. dave9199

    dave9199 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Durham, NC
  6. GodShifter

    GodShifter Forum Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Dallas, TX, USA
    Whoops. Missed that about Robben Ford playing on "Rock and Roll Hell". Thanks for correction. I wasn't paying attention and assumed it was Cusano.
     
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  7. GodShifter

    GodShifter Forum Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Dallas, TX, USA
    Love the Lemmy reference. I can certainly hear that.
     
  8. npgchris

    npgchris Forum Resident

    It's great to hear from another lurker! Even if you haven't heard the album in question in a long time (or ever), all you really need to do is listen to the song of the day, from the YouTube clip that @GodShifter supplies in his summary, and share your thoughts. That's what most of us do. With many of the tracks we've covered so far, I'm hearing a song I haven't listened to in close to 20 years (when the CD remasters came out in 1997). And with some of the stuff coming up, it will often be even more than 20 years since I will have heard it! In any case, "welcome to the show" and it's great to read your contributions. I always love reading a person's introduction to the band, and the course their fandom took! I most definitely share your love for ROCK AND ROLL OVER!

    :cheers:
     
  9. Deuce66

    Deuce66 Senior Member

    Location:
    Canada
    Rock n Roll Hell - I like this song a lot even if Gene had little if anything to do with it's creation, it's dark/heavy and kind of prophetic in terms of Gene's career ambitions, when he screams get me out of this rock n roll hell, I think he means it.

    Adams/Vallance are painted by some KISS fans as some rube newbies to the business that were taken advantage of by Simmons but a little research will show that Bryan was enjoying chart success starting in 1980 and would really break wide open in 1983 with Cuts like a Knife. If they learned anything it's that people like Simmons do exist in the business and they will exploit given the opportunity.
     
  10. dave9199

    dave9199 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Durham, NC
    I'm guessing Gene may have connected with the words to Rock & Roll Hell at that time in Kiss's history.
     
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  11. npgchris

    npgchris Forum Resident

    I know KISS are now a shell of their former selves live, but this made me feel good! I still get a kick out of seeing those guys up on stage delivering a kick-ass tune like this! Despite the fact that everything is tuned down now (sort of par for the course for older bands nowadays), they can still bring it musically. Often, Eric will be supporting Paul vocally to help it sound better, and I was surprised he wasn't doing so here. As @Deuce66 said, Paul's a bit buried in the mix, plus he can almost "talk" part of these lyrics, so it helps.

    It was also cool to see the tank stage once again, even if this is kind of a "Mini-Me" version of the original!
     
  12. YardByrd

    YardByrd rock n roll citizen in a hip hop world

    Location:
    Europe
    They just played here in Finland and I wrestled with going or not... people said Paul's voice was shot and I checked some youtube links and in the end decided not to go. I haven't seen them since 1978 in Springfield MA and decided I'd rather leave my memory intact... I saw Link Wray a couple of times in the '90s and he was terrific... I saw him just a year before his death and it was really bad... I wish now I hadn't gone... it somehow affected my appreciation for the earlier shows and I certainly wanted to leave KISS intact in my memories...
     
  13. Deuce66

    Deuce66 Senior Member

    Location:
    Canada
    I feel the same way, I've seen KISS once since the 2000 Farewell Tour and that was in 2009, Paul's voice was in shambles then also. As far as I'm concerned KISS with a broken Paul doesn't work, I don't care how much pyro/lights or effects you try to dazzle me with, if I'm not on board with the musical performance it's a no-go.
     
  14. npgchris

    npgchris Forum Resident

    I think you're misinterpreting the lyrics. What he's really saying (to a friend) is, "you've gotta keep me coming [to your house] by continuing to serve all those great snacks, and your Mom's delicious homemade lemonade". It's actually a rather shameless attempt to keep getting free food and drinks in exchange for his continued friendship. That's why he says "Each little bite lets me know that you're ripe". "You're" referring to the melons being served!

    It all makes sense now, huh?
     
  15. Sandinista

    Sandinista Forum Resident

    Rock and Roll Hell

    The KISS version is by far the best, imo.

    I'm kind of eh on this one - the melody is not that engaging and I don't like the title at all. Just seems silly but without humor or irony or whatever - especially with Gene's lack of sympathy for anyone who complains about the trappings of stardom. Not a big deal really but it gets in the way a bit for me - about as sincere as if Gene covered a Billy Bragg song.
     
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  16. npgchris

    npgchris Forum Resident

    I hope you'll keep hanging around, because I know a lot of us enjoy hearing what you have to say.

    Along the lines of what you've said above, I will be most curious to hear your reaction to my theory about KISS' music over the years. It'll take me a little while to compose it, but I should have it up here within the next couple of days. Hopefully it'll stimulate some decent discussion amongst all of the smart folks we have here! :righton:
     
  17. intv7

    intv7 Senior Member

    Location:
    Boston, MA, USA
    I've got lots of theories myself...curious to read what you have to say. Don't wanna step on any toes, so I will refrain from commenting until afterward, in case we are thinking along the same lines.
     
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  18. Terrapin Station

    Terrapin Station Master Guns

    Location:
    NYC Man/Joy-Z City
    I love him. :love: He gets my #1 vocalist slot.
    I like Paul, too, of course, although he's only my fourth favorite vocalist in KISS. :hide:
     
  19. intv7

    intv7 Senior Member

    Location:
    Boston, MA, USA
    Paul Stanley -- in fine voice -- would be THE reason to go see them at this point. Unfortunately that's never gonna happen again. I have no interest in seeing Singer and Thayer pretending to be Peter and Ace, and the few times I've seen this lineup, I have more or less ignored them (Thayer mostly).

    In 2004, I could still zero in on Gene and Paul, and enjoy what they were bringing to the table. Saw them again in 2009, 2010, and 2011. Paul's voice was in worse and worse shape each time, until finally in 2011 I realized I was pretty much blocking out Paul's vocals in addition to Thayer and Singer. Decided then and there that I was done, after about 35 or 40 Kiss shows. Paul had a GREAT run, though. Sucks that the voice went downhill so drastically, so quickly.
     
  20. Terrapin Station

    Terrapin Station Master Guns

    Location:
    NYC Man/Joy-Z City
    "Rock and Roll Hell"

    Great Gene tune. The tempo and groove are like the aural equivalent of him slinking around the stage in his dragon boots. It's really simple music-theoretically, but that works well with a vocal melody that's again heavily blues-influenced. Eric's drums sound particularly monstrous on this one, and that meaty bass tone serves the song well. But Gene's gorgeous singing is the best part about it. This is a good counterpart to "Saint & Sinner"--they have a very similar vibe to them without being overly similar musically. And that's notable given the history of the tune that Godshifter recounts. They did a great job making Creatures sound unified.
     
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  21. npgchris

    npgchris Forum Resident

    KEEP ME COMIN'

    As many of you have already pointed out, this is channeling a Zeppelin vibe very heavily, but it does so with aplomb. This is yet another tune here with tons of attitude and swagger, and it works, despite the "single entendre" lyrics! No complaints on this one at all. Yeah, the lyrics could be better, but we could make that same comment about 90% of KISS' songs, so what's new? 8.5/10


    ROCK AND ROLL HELL

    I never knew until decades later that this had been a BTO song. This sure is sounding really good this morning! I hadn't heard either of these last two tunes for a while, and they're both a bit better than I remember. I respect what @GodShifter is saying about the reverb on the guitars, but for whatever reason, I wouldn't change anything about the production of this album. It's over the top, but for this one album, I think it works beautifully. I like the lyrics on this one a lot. 8/10
     
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  22. intv7

    intv7 Senior Member

    Location:
    Boston, MA, USA
    :shrug: Not sure he deserves all that much credit for the tune, outside of demanding a writer's credit on someone else's song.
     
  23. npgchris

    npgchris Forum Resident

    I should have my post up in the next day or two, but having said that, if you have the time to post what you want to say, please do so. There's no need to wait for me, and you won't be stepping on my toes. Thank you for being so considerate, however! (Anyone with a Monkees Headquarters avatar is a-ok, in my book!) :righton:
     
  24. Terrapin Station

    Terrapin Station Master Guns

    Location:
    NYC Man/Joy-Z City
    I wouldn't have thought ot that, but yeah, that's spot on.
     
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  25. npgchris

    npgchris Forum Resident

    Funny that you mention Link Wray, as he is on a very short list of artists that I really like that I never got to see live. I missed seeing him sometime around the year 2000 or 2001, which means according to you, he might not have been that great, anyway. Still, I would have loved to have gotten the chance to see him on stage!
     

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