Knee Deep In Sansui

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by Macman007, Mar 31, 2018.

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  1. Macman007

    Macman007 Sitting mId-way between 2 very large speakers Thread Starter

    I work on Mc gear at my shop, as well as Marantz, Sansui, Kenwood, Pioneer, Phase Linear, Audio Research, etc. I agree the 8080 and 9090 are smooth sounding with a excellent presentation and bloom. Not overly bright or muddy in the bass frequencies. What I do to these older units is stiffen up the power supplies with modern high temp, low esr, long life high ripple filter caps. Any caps under 10 volts are upped to 16 volts. The 2 large main filters I up the capacitance 50% over stock. For example if 9,000uf 63v caps are stock, I replace them with 63v 13,000uf caps. The only thing you have to be careful with is if you up the capacitance too much on the filters, your inrush current is too high, then you can blow fuses and other protection components. There is a work around that allows the circuit at power up to draw less current to prevent excess inrush current. You have to work around different models have different requirements.

    The bigger power supply caps add more bottom end, weight and clarity, as the amp isn't running out of juice when you're playing very dynamic and demanding program material at moderate to high listening levels. The 8080 and 9090 worked around in their design is an interesting one. Many people disqualify these receivers before hearing them, since the Slew and Dampening rates are low. Instead of using 2 X 20,000uf caps and a bigger power supply with all that inrush current, they make up for it by using a monster mains transformer. The 8080 and 9090 series use transformers as large and heavy as those 70's monster receivers rated to over 300wpc. Having the current capacity they don't need to have bigger filter caps. IIRC, their filtar caps are around 9000uf, which is low for a 90 wpc@ 4-8 ohms receiver. Other companies receivers in the same watt range often used smaller transformers, which means less money making bean counters happy. Slew and Dampening, which is essentially the rating bass clarity/strength at low power and driver control was as good or better than receivers with higher slew or dampening numbers on paper. Not just with Sansui, but everything audio, numbers and printed specs are great when it comes to comparing the size of your "equipment" with your buddies, but numbers are only half of the story, if that.

    Before anyone flames me, this is my personal observation, the observation of many other technicians and DIY guys, either working on or have first hand experience working on receivers and other gear from the mid-late 70's on. Now obviously an 8080 or 9090 isn't going to be any match for a Pioneer SX1980 or Marantz 2600, but the Sansui's were very competitive with other brand and model receivers in the 80-120 watt range. 8080 and 9090 are often rated highly on audio quality by their owners or listeners.

    If you were buying gear in the mid 70's and you had all these other brands in the store hooked up and playing as well. It says something when you look at how many people chose and continue to choose a used 8080 and 9090 over competing Pioneer, Marantz, Kenwood or whatever. Prices were pretty competitive back then new, I bought a Marantz 2275 back in the 1979. I can remember listening to the 8080 at the same time, and being fairly impressed. Both were exiting the market and the Marantz price were lower which is why I was there, I was on a budget. Ergo the marantz won. Both models were on their way out, the new digital display feature laden black crap of the 80's andon was coming in soon.

    Remember, these are my observations based on experience, my research, from working on and listening to and owning a fairly large amount of gear: receivers, amps integrated amps etc, between 1974 and 2018. Feel free to differ and comment in a non-condescending respectful way. If you don't like receivers, older gear, Japanese audio gear, or Sansui in general there is no reason to post comments, unless of a constructive nature. Of course as always YOMV and YMMV.

    More to come on this continuing saga soon...
     
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  2. SirMarc

    SirMarc Forum Resident

    Location:
    Cranford, NJ
    I've owned some pretty high end gear in the past, and I flat out love my 9090. It got the most votes in a long best sounding receiver of the 70's thread on AK a few years back, which made me want to track one down. After being serviced, it definitely lived up to the hype...
     
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  3. SirMarc

    SirMarc Forum Resident

    Location:
    Cranford, NJ
    My only complaint is the phono stage, I don't find it very good. I use a Dynaco stage
     
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  4. Macman007

    Macman007 Sitting mId-way between 2 very large speakers Thread Starter

    Built in phono stages made in this period tended to vary in sound quality. Actually, Phono stages built in any period have always been the same way, especially those built in receivers. Preamps and integrated amps tend to include better built in stages, especially more expensive models. This also applies to preamps and integrated amps being built today as well. There are some seriously good stages out there today, especially those built in to the better manufacturers and their audio-centric offerings. Some instances, 2 phono stages, MC and MM with necessary adjustments to tweak for any cartridge load, capacitance level or cart output level. This remained fairly true with the bigger companies offering similar models during the later 70's time period forward.

    For every person who raves over the sound of particular phono stage, 2 others will hear it differently. Remember, the stuff as good as it is, (is-was) built to a price point. Other factors, include synergy between a certain table/arm/cart combo that certain sound great thru some notable built in stages, and not so great thru others. Besides system dependence, people hear differently, prefer different flavors that please their ears. If this wasn't true, there would only be one model of turntable, with accompanying arm, and cartridge.

    Today exists a plethora of stand alone phono stages, for sale ready to go, in kits you can build for those with a hands on desire. These range from good to drop dead over the top knock out. Money isn't the only deciding factor any longer. Picking a great stage was never easier. Whether you prefer solid state, vacuum tube, kits, or ready to go there is something for everyone at every price point. I recently built my own phono stage from a kit. It came with top shelf board components, excellent instructions and a variety of modifications or add ons available to pick from. This allows you to customise the unit to your needs and preferences. My kit is based on the CNC phono stage which is popular and very well regarded wherever you ask. It is op-amp based, you can modify sound by changing to op-amps that sound best to you. Since the op amps are socketed versus soldered in, you can roll op amps the way some folks roll tubes.

    I changed from included ( NE 5532PA) stock op amps , which were not bad sounding at all by the way, to some seriously good Burr Brown (OPA2134PA) which together with the load, capacitance and sensitivity adjustments gives me a phono stage which punches seriously way far above its weight. This thing is that good, and in it's CNC machined black anodized project case, looks right at home in the proximity of any gear. The single control, for power on or off, is on 1 side of the case with phono inputs, high level outputs, ground lug, power cable, connector and on-off switch. LED power indicator is alone on the other end plate, which looks great with the 4 black 4 cap screws and I wired mine to use a dual LED, RED/BLUE for power OFF and ON. It used a 15VAC wall-wart to connect to the wall. All together, the kit with the better op amps, capacitance upgrade, case, wall-wart, LED and other miscellany, costs well under 150$. You'll pay 10 times that for the actual CNC stage it's based on if you can find one of them.

    My kit came minus the better op amps, case and wall-wart, and was for free as a 'development evaluation' sample. The deal is I have to write 1 truthful assessment blog or more for the kit. We're well past blogs. One thing I recommend people do with less than decent phono stages is to disconnect the function selector leads from the phono stage in their receiver or whatever with a marginal quality phono stage. Then using shielded low level cabling, route 2 cables for left and right from the phono input cables at the function/selector switch phono in terminals, then re-rout them to high level (line level) amp in with the other high level inputs. When 'phono' function is now selected, the output from the stand alone phono stage goes directly to the high/line level amp, the way Tuner, Tape, Aux and TV, inputs do. The modification is easily reversible no damage is done. Or if you have an unused tape, tuner or Aux/other high level input, just plug both cables in and your off to the races.

    Do not attempt this or any internal modifications to any audio gear if you are not properly trained. Lethal voltages reside inside these and all electronics, you may be seriously harmed or even killed if you are not properly trained. Otherwise, proceed at your own risk.

    Your other not so easy option is to rebuild your vintage phono stage when you recap and service the receiver. Using better caps, metal film resistors, tighter tolerances, audio grade components, plus eliminating polar electrolytics Tantalum and similar caps with Wima Film caps, you have a well designed factory phono stage that sounds better than it ever did. In the cases of the stages I've done this to so far, the improvement is significant. Owners describe there being a night and day difference. My personal experiences so far match up with the owner experiences. Of course, redesigning or rebuilding an older phono stage versus building a well designed and outlined DIY kit, require different skill levels and skill sets. Some folks may be comfortable with one. Some the other, both and some neither. In the case of neither, you will have to learn as you go, or have someone else help or guide you.

    My dad and I started building small kits when I was 5 from Heathkit. That's where I started. We all start someplace, where are you gonna start?

    For those of you who are interested in buying one of the DIY phono amp kits to build, PM me and I will point you in the right direction. I am not the one selling them.
     
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2018
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  5. SirMarc

    SirMarc Forum Resident

    Location:
    Cranford, NJ
    Sounds interesting, but the Dynaco phono stage and my Thorens TD 145/AT440MLA is a beautiful pairing. Don't want to mess with that synergy.

    I'm in Union County NJ, I wonder how much of a ride it would be to your shop the next time I need the 9090 worked on? If something goes wrong, I'll pm you, and maybe we could work something out. You sound like you know your schiit in regards to these Sansui's
     
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  6. AOL

    AOL Active Member

    Location:
    Eire
    The Sansui brand holds a lot of nostalgia for me.
    Dad bought our first "sound system" in the early 80's of which I still have, it still works but not hooked up ATM.

    It was a cheap unit by todays standards but it was magic back then.
    I still have the first piece of music I ever bought, Thin Lizzy - Johnny the Fox on Cassette!

    Here is a small image of what is left of the system, missing the Speakers, Turntable and Sansui cabinet with glass door!!

    AMP: Sansui A-505 170W
    TUNER: Sansui T-505L
    TAPE: Sansui D-55M

    [​IMG]
     
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  7. SirMarc

    SirMarc Forum Resident

    Location:
    Cranford, NJ
    Can't see the image
     
  8. SirMarc

    SirMarc Forum Resident

    Location:
    Cranford, NJ
    Yikes! A 3 hour and 15 minute drive! Maybe not lol
     
  9. Macman007

    Macman007 Sitting mId-way between 2 very large speakers Thread Starter

    Wel thank you Sir Marc,..

    ..come on by. You are about 3.5 hours drive north east of here. My Wife is from Bergen County, as is most of her family. My folks live in Westhampton Beach on Long island, outside of Hampton Bays. We used to swing by your way regularly, 95 to 278 to Goethals Bridge, then Verrazano Bridge straight up the BQE to LIE, out till the end..where it turns into 27 east Sunrise Highway. If you ever need audio service or help, (shipping is way cheaper with gas at 3$ a gallon) come on down, or ship your gear, whatever you prefer. We're close to Gettysburg and the National Cemetery & Battlefields, plus Lancaster County, Amish Country. (ATR Tape! in York), so there is a lot to see,.. or should I have said spend your money seeing/buying etc..
     
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  10. AOL

    AOL Active Member

    Location:
    Eire
    Hmm
    [​IMG]
     
  11. tables_turning

    tables_turning In The Groove

    Location:
    Mid Atlantic, USA
    I had my share of many brands in the 70s, constantly swapping out pieces of gear: Onkyo, Luxman, Superscope, Lafayette, Dokorder, Interface, Fisher...
     
  12. allied333

    allied333 Audiophile

    Location:
    nowhere
    I was taking care of my sick sister & brother-in-law. I could not work while taking care of them, so I started rebuilding Fisher tube amps & receivers. I got known in a short time for rebuilding the best sounding Fishers. Caused quite a stir actually being new kid on the block and I got kicked off of Audio Karma from a jealous big time rebuilder there. I was getting a lot of his business. Both died a year later and I went back to my regular job as a project manager. Pays much more, so no more rebuilding Fisher gear. Four years later I still get requests for Fisher rebuilds.
     
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  13. tdvanb

    tdvanb Forum Resident

    I bought my 9090 from a church yard sale at a parishoners house It is beautiful but could use some work on the wood cabinet. For $50 I got the 9090, a pioneer Hr 100 8 track deck (I still use it), a sharp computerized cssette deck and a B & O turntable that didn't work. After a couple of years sitting around, I finally took the 9090 to a tech shop and for about $120, they fixed a problem with the right channel being out. The tech told me he recently fixed a 9090 for the local skating rink that had been in service running the sound for a long time and they are really constructed for the long haul. I've had my 9090 hooked up in a main system with Jbl L212's, Marantz HD88's, a dbx 3bx dynamic range expander, a Teac X2000r Reel deck and a Teac V3rx cassette deck. The sound is very good...very satisfying and sounds especially good with cassettes played throught the L212's.. The tuner lights went out a while back and I unplugged one wire on a board to a different location on the same board per a website suggestion and this kept the tuner light on all the time instead of just when the tuner was selected. That worked for a while, but the tuner lights have quit working again. The tech told me the tuner lights quit working because it is probably arcing. Is it possible that the bulbs just went out? I really like seeing the tuner light up whether I use the tuner (I don't) or not.
    I'm one of those guys who has been grabbing this 70's-80's stuff up for 20 years and have systems set up all over the place (including Quadraphonic with 4 JBL 12" 3 ways and a Marantz quad amp). The tech who fixed my 9090 also sold me a Pioneer SX 950 receiver, Pioneer SX 680 receiver and large radio shack receiver for $40 as they were closing the business. He said the 680 works and he couldn't find anything wrong with it, but the owner never picked it up. He had diagnosed the 950 and said it needed new output transistors. I replaced the power transistors for about $50 and that reciever is kicking through my Pioneer elite TZ- 7 speakers.
    Theres a lot of us out there!
     
  14. White_Noise

    White_Noise Forum Resident

    Location:
    Templeton, MA
    I've been wanting a 9090 for a few years now. I almost bought a restored unit at a vintage audio shop in Arizona but he sold it before I could drive down. I've heard that the Eight Deluxe may be a little smoother?

    Right now I'm actually leaning toward an AU-919. I like my marantz 2230 for the tuner and for vinyl on less demanding systems. But I'm looking for a classic Sansui amp closer to the power of my Technics SA-1000. I like my AU-660 I bought a few years ago. I probably can't quite afford an AU-X1 and I shudder to think of the shipping cost. What's a reasonable price nowadays for a restored or unrestored 919? Is there another comparable model I should be considering for punch and clarity?
     
  15. SirMarc

    SirMarc Forum Resident

    Location:
    Cranford, NJ
    The 9090 is a fantastic sounding receiver, and this is coming from someone who has owned some pretty high end gear in the past
     
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  16. Chris Schoen

    Chris Schoen Rock 'n Roll !!!

    Location:
    Maryland, U.S.A.
    Had a Sansui receiver in the late 70's. Would be fun to hear it now. Nice look too, as I remember. Gold fm backplate, silver and fancy knurling on the knobs.
     
  17. classicrocker

    classicrocker Life is good!

    Location:
    Worcester, MA, USA
    My first real stereo system was bought from one of the catalog companies, Illinois Audio?, that sold package deals at the end of summer 1974 before I headed off for my sophomore year of college. I used my summer job money to buy it and it cost $300.00 and change, if memory serves me, and consisted of a Sansui 661 receiver, Dual TT and Dynaco A35 speakers. Still remember the UPS truck pulling up to the dorm to deliver it.

    That Sansui was cranked for hours on end at college and sounded fantastic through the vintage Dynaco's. It served me well for the next 10 yrs before I bought a high watt JVC receiver to replace it. Still wish I had kept it and hope to purchase a serviced 8080 or 9090 someday to put together a vintage system.
     
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  18. bluesky

    bluesky Senior Member

    Location:
    south florida, usa
    Back in the early to mid 70s the majority of military guys in the Asian theater bought component stereo systems of some kind (either that or they bought a motorcycle). Big sellers were Pioneer, Nikko, Kenwood, Yamaha, Sansui, Marantz, Teak, Dual, etc., but most of the guys bought Sansui. Sansui had something special, a really fine sound quality.
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2018
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  19. Apesbrain

    Apesbrain Forum Resident

    Location:
    East Coast, USA
    I have fond memories of this pair I owned in college:

    [​IMG]
     
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  20. McLover

    McLover Senior Member

    I love great Sansui, but the 4000 receiver for me is better than any 8080, 9090, or G series in the sonics department. My favorite Sansuis are the 3000a, 4000, and 5000 in proper working order, and the 5500, the Six, and Seven follow.
     
  21. gorangers

    gorangers Forum Resident

    Location:
    New Haven area
    I love my 4000 and the little beast 800. I'm looking at a Six now. It looks to be in good nick and has a nice wood case. If I can get it for a hundy I'll grab her.
     
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