Kraftwerk 2004 The Catalogue Sound quality compared to original Cd's

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Maidenpriest, Aug 15, 2014.

  1. Have you ever compared the German LP to CD then? I'm somewhat curious. My CD certainly doesn't sound as though it's taken from an original master tape. It is the genuine EMI Electrola disc as well.
     
  2. sjaca

    sjaca Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Toronto ON, Canada
    They remastered the vinyl again, after doing the catalogue on vinyl in 2009? Different from the 2009 vinyl?
     
  3. Oops, sorry, no that's my mistake. Thanks for spotting it. I meant the 2009! I think I purchased my set in 2014 and that's where that date comes from! :doh:
     
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  4. Yost

    Yost Forum Resident

    To be honest I'm only interested in Die Mensch Machine and Electric Cafe. Somehow Radioactivität and TEE just sound too dated to my ears. I like the remixes on The Mix better. :hide:
     
  5. sathvyre

    sathvyre formerly known as ABBAmaniac

    Location:
    Europe
    I never compared both formats with each other, but I like them both.
     
  6. Yost

    Yost Forum Resident

    I never heard any Kraftwerk on vinyl. I mainly heard them on the radio, and my first purchase was The Mix on CD (when it was released). I also have original Autobahn and Man Machine CDs and they sound fine to me. The original Computerwelt CD I have is absolutely gorgeous sounding when you crank it up. On low levels it sounds bass-light, but the EQ really comes into balance when it is played loud.

    I'll keep an eye open for the vinyl. I do prefer CDs, but nowadays I'm able to play and rip vinyl on my refurbished Dual 1225, so vinyl is a viable option again.
     
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  7. Plan9

    Plan9 Mastering Engineer

    Location:
    Toulouse, France
    There were at least two CD masterings in the 80s alone. The ones I have heard sound excellent and not at all like you describe.
     
  8. c-eling

    c-eling Forum Resident

    For US editions these I've been happy with-
    Autobahn Elektra SRC (Nice warm presentation)
    100/84.3/85.6
    The Man Machine Capitol JAX
    81.5/69.2/64.7
    Trans-Europe Express Capitol JAX
    100/96.3/100
     
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  9. Vorlon

    Vorlon Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Norway
    I had Mensch -Machine on LP. It was great, and it is now such long time ago, that I can never compare to the LP, just enjoy my CD.
     
  10. negative1

    negative1 Forum Resident

    Location:
    USA
    i have a question for german listeners out there..... and to english people that can translate the german...

    1) i only know english, so when i first heard kraftwerk songs, they made sense in english.... then i heard the german versions,
    and some sound more 'natural' in german....

    i know that the german versions don't translate exactly to english ...

    when german listeners hear the english versions, do they translate it in their mind to 'german' versions, even if they aren't the same words?

    and to english listeners that can translate german, when you hear the german versions, do you translate those in your mind to the different english words?

    which would sound more natural to you...

    later
    -1
     
  11. Yost

    Yost Forum Resident

    I'm Dutch but I understand and speak both English and German. I don't translate these songs in realtime. Hearing the music just makes me remember the first version I heard and know best. So although listening to Taschenrechner, I will expect to hear the English lyrics, until they start singing and remind me of the fact that I'm listening to the German version. And in my mind it doesn't make sense to think about the translation, because they're not singing the same in English and German.
     
  12. dougotte

    dougotte Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Washington, DC
    I hope you don't mind a tangential anecdote. I first heard Peter Gabriel's 3rd album in English during college when it was first released, but I never owned it.

    Several years later, I was teaching piano to two brothers, and the family had just moved back from Germany. They had the German version (Gabriel used to release his albums in both English and German), so I taped it. For years, I only heard that German version.

    Then, when I got the English CD many years after that, it took a long time to adjust to the English again. The German just sounded "right" to my mind.
     
    Max Florian likes this.
  13. Merrick

    Merrick Forum Resident

    Location:
    Portland
    Seems like there are significant splits between people who prefer the '80s masterings, the 2004, and the 2009. Reading the link posted earlier in the thread, it sounds like a pick your poison situation. The '80s discs sound like they're not always the most clear, but have the best DR and are the least futzed with. The 2004 and 2009 have more clarity and low end, but lower DR, potential roll off in the highs on some titles, and have had changes made to the records. Sounds to me like the original CDs do the least wrong.
     
  14. negative1

    negative1 Forum Resident

    Location:
    USA
    that's very interesting, i don't speak french or japanese, but i know enough french (from canada), so when i hear the french version of some kraftwerk songs,
    i translate them...

    that adds more complexity, but that's not their original language either, and i'm sure those words don't match english or german either!

    thanks, i guess, it all depends on what we are most used too..

    i just found out there are some police songs in other languages besides english, and i'm sure that other people find those to be the versions they remember..

    later
    -1
     
  15. NO. The original CD's do everything wrong that an 80's CD could possibly be convicted of.
     
  16. bibijeebies

    bibijeebies Forum Resident

    Location:
    Amstelveen (NL)
    Untrue, they sound very charming.
     
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  17. Okay, we'll agree to disagree. Your "charming" is my "unlistenable". ;)
     
  18. bibijeebies

    bibijeebies Forum Resident

    Location:
    Amstelveen (NL)
    Steve, it could be a case of different versions. I have the old TEE and Man Machine and like them both.
     
  19. Well, I have the original German Man Machine and TEE along with UK Autobahn and Radio-Activity. I prefer the 2009 remasters cut to LP in 2014 (the German Mute pressings), followed by the original UK LP's. The CD's, either UK or German really seem to lack that punch and the dynamics of the remasters. The "rolled off" top was done very cleverly to omit excessive tape noise caused by multiple over-dubs, and it barely registers in the music. It's the best 'adjustment' I've ever heard in the digital era anyway, especially when it cleans up distortion and other unwanted artifacts. The remasters were pretty much acclaimed by most people and they were done by Kraftwerk, not some record company hack.
     
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  20. bibijeebies

    bibijeebies Forum Resident

    Location:
    Amstelveen (NL)
    These are interesting remarks. I love the original distortion and artifacts as this is electronic music. If you record this in 1975 please let me hear its age.
     
  21. Sytze

    Sytze Forum Resident

    Mogge! ;-)
    And to think there are French, Japanese and Italian versions of that track as well...
     
  22. JP Christian

    JP Christian Forum Resident

    I only have one 2009 CD - Computer World, along with the UK original and yes the 2009 is louder and devoid of hiss, but I actually think in this case, it suits the music more - it doesn't sound any less vibrant than the original - yes, there is a little more 'air' to the original but it sounds a little lackluster in comparison - and that's not to do with compression, this after volume matching them to each other.

    My question is - on the original CD mastering, are there significant differences between the UK and US? I have two copies of Trans Europe Express, I would say the US has the edge but I may be imagining it's better as they may be mastered identically...

    On the vinyl side I have mainly UK originals which sound fine - I also have a couple of US pressings dated 1993 - both are pretty lifeless in comparison to my originals and the CDs. Are the 2009 Mute vinyl pressings really good? I'm tempted to get nice clean pressings of the core albums if so!
     
  23. Yes, they are the very best. You need nothing more.
     
    JP Christian likes this.
  24. Mbe

    Mbe Forum Resident

    Location:
    UK
    Numbers
    EAC and DR values of my editions if of any use;

    Autobahn (EMI) EMI Swindon CDP 746153 2 AR 2:8:3
    EAC;
    86.6 / 73.4 / 74.5 / 75.2 / 58.2
    DR;
    14 / 14/ 12 / 14 / 14

    Radio-Activity (Capitol) EMI Swindon CDP 746744 2 2
    EAC;
    42.5 / 79.1 / 71.8 / 97 / 37.7 / 74.8 / 20.9 / 100 / 69.5 / 59.1 / 61.0 / 63.3
    DR;
    15 / 12 / 11 / 11 / 7 / 13 / 10 / 13 / 12 / 11 / 10 / 11

    Trans – Europe Express (Capitol) 746473 @ 1 1-3-18 NL
    EAC;
    100 / 96.3 / 100 / 93 / 93.7 / 57.6 / 88.2
    DR;
    15 / 14 / 14 / 13 / 12 / 10 / 14

    The Man Machine (Capitol) 746039 @ 3 010207 (replacement for a lost previous edition)
    EAC;
    81.5 / 69.2 / 64.7 / 71.4 / 77.4 / 67.1
    DR;
    15 / 14 / 15 / 13 / 17 / 15

    Computer World (EMI) EMI Swindon 746040 2 3:1:16
    EAC;
    72.2 / 78.6 / 67.1 / 69.2 / 68.1 / 60.8 / 49.7
    DR;
    15 / 16 / 17 / 14 / 12 / 15 / 13

    Electric Cafe (EMI) CDP 746416 2 AR 1:7:1
    EAC;
    86.8 / 100 / 100 / 89 / 80.3 / 69.8
    DR;
    16 / 15 / 17 / 15 / 16 / 14

    The Mix (EMI) EMI Swindon CDP 796671 2 AR 1:4:6
    EAC;
    99.2 / 100 / 97.7 / 93.3 / 83.1 / 91.2 / 68.4 / 75.9 / 77.6 / 91.2 / 91.2
    DR;
    15 / 14 / 14 / 14 / 13 / 14 / 14 / 14 / 15 / 14 / 15

    The Model - The Best Of - Retrospective 1975 – 1978 (single edits) Cleopatra 57739
    EAC;
    98.5 / 83.6 / 74.3 / 94.1 / 91.1 / 77.1 / 76.2 / 93.7 / 91.2 / 76.8 / 100
    DR;
    12 / 12 / 11 / 14 / 13 / 12 / 11 / 12 / 15 / 11 / 15
    https://www.discogs.com/Kraftwerk-The-Model-Retrospective-19751978/release/265244
     
  25. c-eling

    c-eling Forum Resident

    Computer World-
    US SRC DR-15
    94.4/99.6/85.8/88.9/81.3/74.8/72.0
     
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