L.A. Audio Show -- unique Magnepan setup

For anyone interested, Magnepan will be located in Ballroom 110 at the L.A. Audio Show, June 2 - 4. I'm doing some consulting work for Magnepan, and got tipped to what they will be demonstrating at this show. The demo will help illustrate how a tall line source driver can provide more of a "you are there experience" (as opposed to "they are here") than most enclosure drivers. Yesterday I took a field trip to Audio Research to listen to music via the Magnepan 20.7. It was an OMG experience for me! Certainly, it helps when you have mega-high quality Audio Research electronics driving the 20.7 speakers. But even with that kind of power in a high current amp, the whomp factor and slam dynamics were something I did not expect. In the past I have read about the biggest criticism of Magnepan planar speakers being the lack of overall dynamics. Over the past several weeks I have learned by listening to different combinations of electronics and Magnepan speakers that this does not have to be the case. Yes, underpowered, lower current power will not allow these planars to achieve their design potential. I am a Magnepan fan, first, a consusltant, second. This is a challenging gig for me because Magnepan's current struggle is that of a big speaker company in a smaller speaker world.

 

For the price of high power amps and Maggie 20.7s, can one not get box speakers that do 90% of the Maggie "you are there experience," while also providing great dynamics? Also, with less room placement issues?

I enjoyed my 1.7s, but they absolutely had to be playing around 75db averages to produce any real dynamics. Do the 20.7s behave that way?

 

What amplification were you using to drive the 1.7's? Yesterday, during my session at Audio Research, we were not playing music at that high a listening level, yet the dynamics were there. I believe the higher power, high current amp was able to bring this about (600 wpc @ 4 ohms).

 

Will the Magnepan demo be different than how it was done at THE SHOW in Newport last year?

That was the most bizarre demo of THE SHOW. A signup sheet for a specific time. Then into a darkened room with no talking and a dimly lit equipment rack where someone loaded and played bizarre music in bits and pieces. Lights would come up, cards passed out, and then ushered out of the room.

 

Hi Erik -- I certainly hope not! I'm trying to get Magnepan to change the way they demo and market their speakers. If you go, please report back to me. I am not an employee and will not take offense with any criticism of Magnepan. My opening posting comment comes from being a fan of this planar technology. The trick, I am finding, is to match up compatitble electronics to bring out the dynamics potential.

 

Parasound Halo Integrated. 240 wpc.

 

Maggies do like power. You can always try one of these....FREE SHIPPING - Lincoln Electric Eagle 10,000 Plus Welder Generator with Kohler Engine - 225 Amp DC, 9,000 Watt AC Power, Model# K2343-3 | Engine Drive Welders| Northern Tool + Equipment

 

In late April I listened to a pair of 1.7i's using a Parasound A21 power amp. I believe that the power of the A21 is 400 wpc @ 4 ohms. I liked the sonic characteristics of that amp, and it did help deliver on dynamics with the 1.7i's. That same day I also tried a prototype with the 1.7i's; another high current amp that produced 350 wpc @ 4 ohms. Although a tad less rated power, I liked the sound of that one slightly more than the A21.

 

Great, Steve; I hope you like what you hear. Please let us know what your impressions are.

 

Maggies do not 'come alive' at low to moderate volumes. It's not a lack of dynamics, it's a lack of micro-dynamics.

But if you like rock at fairly high levels they're a lot of fun.

And yes, they are a VERY ODD COMPANY in desperate need of some new management, particularly a new National sales manager.

 

You are referring to Wendell Diller? Wendell has been with Magnepan for over 40 years, and is very respected by the people at Audio Reasearch. He is very opinionated, and it's tough to argue with him sometimes. He is beginning to listen to me a little, as he realizes that the market for Magnepan has changed quite a bit over the last five or so years.

 

Wish I could make it to the show.
As an owner of the MMG, then the 1.6, now the 1.7i's, proper amplification AND placement are mandatory for these speakers (Thanks Barry D.!). Can't wait until I can move into a bigger room and make the next step up.
I LOVE my MAGGIES and can never see myself with something different.

And yes, when listening, I AM there!

 

Will do - Magnepan is on the list of rooms to visit.

 

This is a common complaint but more often uttered by fans of big dynamic speakers or horns IMO. The one design issue I have questions about is the high cross-over to the ribbon tweeter. I feel that the crossover point should be lower as it was on the 2.6 model which by rumor is Jim Winey's favorite model. The lower crossover would add some natural lightness to mid treble such as the E string of the violin.

I think the issue I have heard from the few Maggie owners I met and in my own experience is getting a proper tonal balance from them. The problem has been made worse IMO by the current move to SS amps with recessed midrange and pronounced deep bass and treble to enhance detail and give bass slam. This is not a good profile for Maggies which need SS amps with power in the mid bass and lower midrange and a sweet treble. Also Magnepan should make clear that owners should address backwave mitigation. Until I dampened the ribbon reflections on the back wall I couldn't totally eliminate treble glare.

 

I was lucky enough to receive an extended listening session at the Maggie room at the last Newport show. What struck me, besides the fact that in general the system was quite full range, was the odd set up that utilized three ( yes three!) speakers.
The center channel was actually a little less resolved than I am used to hearing, possibly because the center speaker interfered with the imaging. However, IF one had a huge room and wanted to try this set up ( three speakers spread evenly across the room)...which BTW wasn't at out of the earth pricing, then this could be of interest. This year, i am probably going to take a pass at the Maggie room ( too many others to listen to, and somewhat limited time). I will be interested to hear what others thought of their room this year...

 

This is interesting, and I'm going to look into your point about crossover points. I agree about amp characteristics -- I heard a power amp a couple of weeks ago that left a small hole in the midrange of the 1.7i's, but was strong in deeper bass. When I swapped amps, I could hear that midrange and mid bass fill out a little. The deeper bass seemed to be de-emphasized, but I think I was hearing details in the midrange and mid bass regions.

 

Of course I am just one individual and haven't heard every sub 10k priced amp, but I was forced to get amp models from the 1990s to get a more appropriate tonal balance. Unfortunately SS is the only option with Maggies for power amps. I do recommend that Maggie owners try tubed preamplification though.

 

I concur, and have heard one good example of a tube preamp combined with a solid state amp driving 3.7i's. I would like some feedback from anyone who has tried the newest Ncore class D amps (NAD, Bel Canto, others) along with a tube preamp, driving Maggies or other speakers.

 

Well, today in LA, the demo WAS kind of odd. Yes, a somewhat darkened room, the speakers behind a gauzy curtain with a lot of flowers in front as decoration. It put me in mind of a funeral parlor-literally! (Maybe because I had to go to a funeral mass after the show, granted).

Then it was explained there were 2 model 20.7s?? stacked on each side, and a model 1.7?? as a center channel, and the whole thing being fed by a Bryston-designed 3-channel stereo processor customized for Magnepan. Unclear if this was something Bryston was making and customized, or created at Magnepan's behest.

I asked why the center was not also the same as the L/R, why was it a different speaker. The exhibitor said good question, he didn't know why, it did seem it would be more ideal. I didn't think to ask why they were hiding the speakers. That was rather weird, since you could see them as black outlines anyway. And in a "small speaker world"...were they trying to hide the bulk? Nobody is going to buy speakers they can't see; visuals matter.

The music, yeah, nothing we had ever heard of. One choral piece with a solo voice in Spanish, another kind of percussion thing. Sorry, those kind of demos suck, it is not telling you much of anything about the sound if the music is too totally unfamiliar.

The demos I love are the folks hooked into Tidal asking "what do you want to hear" because if you haven't heard a piece. Next is the folks with a huge stack of discs and/or records (The Zu girls actually had an LP of John Mayall's excellent The Turning Point!). Third is someone playing jazz or classical where you have at least generally heard those instruments.

 

Well, as a speaker engineer I'll say Maggies just operate differently and the sound is very different. For the price could you buy something conventional but excellent? Sure. Would it have the same characteristics? No.

What is the impedance of the panels? Capacitive? I'd love to see an impedance plot. Maybe their impedance characteristics are just more demanding of the amplification.

 

Maybe not quite the same, no. I've since heard several conventional speakers that are capable of the Maggie strengths. I just don't think they're quite the amazing bargain that some claim. Good for the money? Sure, but so are many conventional pairs that don't exhibit the weaknesses of the 1.7. Of course, my experience is based on driving them with a flea watt Parasound amp.

Don't get me wrong, overall I think the 1.7s are great speakers and I enjoyed my time with them. I haven't heard the 3.7s, or 20.7s, nor have I heard any models powered by their own hydroelectric dam. Maybe that would change my opinion.

 

Well I would never have used the word "bargain" ha ha, but certainly different.

Actually I'd be really curious to hear Roger Sanders electrostatics, and I'd be curious to A/B Magnepans versus Martin-Logans (which A/B would be admittedly problematic due to placement and interactions).

As for the dam, you are behind the times, Magnepan is releasing their model 10000.7 which forms the base of a windmill. You put them in your back yard for critical listening during cookouts on Labor Day etc...

 

It's interesting that ARC and Magnepan still have a joint demonstration program. Elsewhere here (in a thread about vintage, I think), I posted a price sheet from ARC circa 1973 or 74 listing Audio Research and Magnepan products and prices.
I remember the first couple times I heard the original Tympanis back in the early '70s. They were very impressive in scale, and took up quite a bit of floor space. Used, of course, with ARC then, too.