Led Zeppelin III.......deadwax Question?

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by QuestionMark?, Aug 25, 2006.

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  1. Sugarnutz

    Sugarnutz New Member

    Location:
    Lake Cormorant, MS
    I don't remember that presssing plant IDs were scribed into the leadout, I for one never did it. Most major label product was shipped directly to the pressing plants such as CBS/Terre Haute as they had thier own plating facilities for stampers, something might have been done there.
     
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  2. Paul K

    Paul K Senior Member

    Location:
    Toronto, Canada

    I don't understand what 3 & 4 set stampers refers to...Please could you explain?

    (BTW WELCOME!!!!)
     
  3. Sugarnutz

    Sugarnutz New Member

    Location:
    Lake Cormorant, MS
    1 step would be that the stamper (a negative image of the record) is pulled directly from the original lacquer master and pressing would be done from that, very limited number of records until the stamper wore out, maybe a thousand or more, but very high quality. Additional sets of stampers could be pulled from the original master if the plating facility was very careful as you had to grind the edge of the master to remove the stamper. Since the original lacquers were only 14" in diameter, you could only do this a couple of times before the lacquer was destroyed or you didn't have enough flange left (due to decreasing diameter) to mount in a press. Even a second stamper pulled from an original had less detail in the high-end and increased noise due to the heat of the plating bath. Lacquer masters were extremly fragile, you could not play one even with the best stylus as it would wear down the fine excurtions in the groove which is the high frequency content of the recording.

    3 step would be that the original stamper pulled from the lacquer master is now called a "Mother". It would be plated itself and the resulting positive plate that was removed from it would be called a "Metal Master" which was plated many times again to produce multiple stampers for the presses. You could then go back to the "Mother" and produce another "Metal Master" thus repeating the process for stampers again. This is the only way that major labels could produce economy of scale for big releases as we already shipped anywhere from 12-20 sets of lacquers to the pressing plants as it was.

    There were also 2 & 4 step processes that were rather convoluted/complicated as they did not truly represent the number of steps in the process, but had to be called something to seperate them from the more common 1 & 3 step processes.

    The main reason some of the specialty releases as mentioned above sound better is that they were aimed at a limited market and were probably 1-step with higher quality raw materials. You also paid more for these releases and the company had smaller margines they were willing to accept than the majors. Mobile Fidelity was one such outfit as I remember.
     
  4. Paul K

    Paul K Senior Member

    Location:
    Toronto, Canada
    Thank you for that info!

    I had a Mastercraft Zep lll and it sounded very dull indeed....confused the heck out of me!

    What records have you yourself done that might interest the rest of us?
     
  5. Ski Bum

    Ski Bum Happy Audiophile

    Location:
    Vail, CO
    IMO, Classic Records did a nice job with Led Zep III -- it easily bested my early original pressing in a shootout. I haven't had the opportunity to compare the Classic Records version with a Canadain pressing, but it is a nice way to get a clean good-sounding copy. BTW, the infamous squeaky pedal in "Since I've Been Loving You" is heard with unprecedented clarity in the 45rpm version (which comes in the big box set) -- not necessarily what I had aimed for with the extra expenditure of $$, but there for those of you who would like to try to identify the pedal by its squeak.
     
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  6. Sugarnutz

    Sugarnutz New Member

    Location:
    Lake Cormorant, MS
    I did mostly gospel for Eastbound/Nine records out of Detroit; Rev. James Cleveland, Clark Sisters, Mattie Moss Clark and few others. Eatbound/Nine was the Gospel label for Westbound Records which had Ohio Players, Funkadelics and others which my Dad did, I got to meet a lot of interesting folks when I was in my late teens & early 20's. My Dad was still doing Al Green when I started, but I did all the compilations for 8-track/cassette, not disc mastering to speak of as Willie thought I was too young. One of the pop records I did then was Elizabeth Barraclough (Bob Dylan's sweetie) produced by Willie Mitchell for Bearsville. By 1978 a lot of the major label work in Memphis had died down, but I did thousands of independent records from all over the south.

    My thing was more recording in the studio, a lot of contemporary gospel, Degarmo & Key, Eddie Degarmo (Solo), Amy Grant, DC Talk.

    I have been out of the business professionally since 1990, but still do some editing for a few producers in Nashville that I have know forever, most recently the Hacienda Brothers.

    I am amazed that that Led Zep III LP would be dull, even on a bad pressing, as Terry Manning was a great fan of boosting the high end, almost to the point of being dangerous to the cutter head.
     
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  7. Paul K

    Paul K Senior Member

    Location:
    Toronto, Canada
    Wow!!!!

    I have some a couple of Eastbound singles....James Austin I think?

    Anyway you sound like you have had quite an interesting time down there!

    Did ya ever meet Alex Chilton?
     
  8. Sugarnutz

    Sugarnutz New Member

    Location:
    Lake Cormorant, MS
    I probably meet Alex, but don't remember him specifically as we traveled in different circles. I did know Jody Stephens (the drummer for Big Star) a little as he played in a band with some of my friends I grew up with.

    On the Austin 45, I don't really remember it as it was about 25-30 years ago, but if it has an "M" for MasterCraft and a "HC" my dad did it, if it has the "M" and then "JC" with a 5 pointed star after (something I did to quickly identify my work from my Dad's, sometimes if a customer requested my Dad do the work and he didn't have time I scribed "HC" with the star after, this was rare.) then I did it.
     
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  9. Paul K

    Paul K Senior Member

    Location:
    Toronto, Canada
    I will go home and check!

    Thanx!

    Paul
     
  10. W.B.

    W.B. The Collector's Collector

    Location:
    New York, NY, USA
    That's what I was saying, probably the plant to which the lacquers went added the initials in question. As for my own copy of Led Zeppelin III - see my post some postions up (on another page) of this thread who cut the lacquers of both sides. It was a Columbia pressing. From Pitman, NJ.
     
  11. W.B.

    W.B. The Collector's Collector

    Location:
    New York, NY, USA
    Didn't Paul Richmond also work at Mercury Sound Studios (later Masterdisk) in New York in the 1972-74 period? I ask this because I have a 45 mastered by Mr. Richmond, with a particular signature on the deadwax similar to 1972-74 Mercury (and subsidiary) 45's, from 1970 on Enterprise: "I Stand Accused" b/w "I Just Don't Know What to Do With Myself" by Isaac Hayes. And in those days Stax/Volt (which distributed Enterprise) used MasterCraft for their lacquer mastering, before going in-house with Lenny Nix.
     
  12. VinylNutz

    VinylNutz Active Member

    The Classic is nice. Original UK pressing on the orange/plum label and A/5 - B/5 matrix numbers are even better sounding IMHO. I'll have to track down red label Canadian copy.
     
  13. johnnyv

    johnnyv Forum Resident

    Location:
    tampa, fl
    My White Label Promo has "So Mote Be It" on side 1 and nothing on side 2. Everything I've read about it says that "do what thou wilt" was on side 1 and "so Mote..." should be on side 2.
    Any ideas regarding the difference?
     
  14. aoxomoxoa

    aoxomoxoa I'm an ear sitting in the sky

    Location:
    USA
    I have a mastercraft pressing with an "AT" and the qoutes that sounds pretty god but I have nothing else to compare it to except the Complete 10 cd box set.
     
  15. MikeyH

    MikeyH Stamper King

    Location:
    Berkeley, CA
    IMO there were several 'first' sets, all from MasterCraft. Let's say I've seen copies with the same saying on both sides. So extrapolate to at least three sets (one with SMIB on side 1, one with SMIB on side 2, one blank) that were used interchangeably in the first year or two. That makes sense based on the pressings I've seen.

    People do post about 'their' copies with authority on the web these days; It's a pity we can't all see ten copies a day in the stores like ten years ago.

    Do yours say 'MasterCraft' in script? Again, some do, some don't. It's faint.
     
  16. Meddle_Guy

    Meddle_Guy Forum Resident

    Location:
    Woodland Hills, CA

    I also give a thumbs up to the Classic, especially side 2. I have the previously discussed Mastercraft with the Crowley verbage and mine sounds muddy as well. also have a mid 1970's UK pressing that sounds quite good overall, just a bit thin when compared to the Classic.
     
  17. aoxomoxoa

    aoxomoxoa I'm an ear sitting in the sky

    Location:
    USA
    Ok, so the Canadian pressing is good on III, how about Canadian I & II????
     
  18. KeninDC

    KeninDC Hazy Cosmic Jive

    Location:
    Virginia, USA
    The CDN LZ II is no slouch. I'd rank it 2nd behind the "RL" II.
     
  19. eddiel

    eddiel Senior Member

    Location:
    Toronto, Canada
    The Canadian II pressing (original) is great. Better than any reissues and also better then the MFSL pressing.



    Eddie
     
  20. Stefan

    Stefan Senior Member

    Location:
    Montreal, Canada
    I don't know if the link is still valid, but here's a sample from the original Canadian TG pressing of LZII (initials T.G. in the deadwax. no one seems to know who the guy is but his masterings are typically great).

    http://download.yousendit.com/1C87ABF008412B57
     
  21. Bobby Buckshot

    Bobby Buckshot Heavy on the grease please

    Location:
    Southeastern US
    Thread from '08 but just learning about stampers/deadwax stuff and started checking some LPs. My copy of III has "MasterCraft" in some very nice script writing. It also has "So Mote Be It" on both sides (not "So Mote It Be" - which I think may be a difference in styles of prayer closings between English and American Freemasonry, please correct me if I'm wrong or missed anything).

    Mine also has the PR engraving, so guess this is a Paul Richmond job - guess it was pressed sometime in '70 then??? Great info in this short, old thread, which is very much appreciated.
     
  22. Neilson77

    Neilson77 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Nottingham UK
    How does this Columbia mastered and pressed III sound?
     
  23. W.B.

    W.B. The Collector's Collector

    Location:
    New York, NY, USA
    Sounds reasonably fine by me . . . but the Pitman fonts on the label make it sweeter . . .
     
  24. Neilson77

    Neilson77 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Nottingham UK
    I just bought a Dutch 1st press Plum label on the strength of a needledrop of it i downloaded. Sounded very close to my UK A5/B5 plum just a little muddier. I think this suits this album though as it can sound quite shrill. Im surprised the Dutch pressing isn't discussed more often on here, sounds nice!
     
  25. Neilson77

    Neilson77 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Nottingham UK
    Hi, could you please confirm if the US pressings were mastered from a copy tape? I've read on here that supposedly they were and the UK pressings were cut from the master tape.
     
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